[News.eclipse.foundation] Re: [EDP] Mentors Council or Coaching Squad?

["Dave" <dave.bernstein@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

If, as you say, the Architecture Council has been dysfunctional for years, 
then by definition the EMO has been negligent in not correcting the 
situation. Leading the Planning and Architecture Councils to produce the 
Roadmap is an explicit EMO responsibility.

I made no comment about the quality of your work, Bjorn, as am ignorant of 
your responsibilities.

    Dave


"Bjorn Freeman-Benson" <bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message 
news:ehtsbo$vkp$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> (Note: I have moved this conversation from the wiki page 
> (http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Development_Process_2006_Revision) to 
> this newsgroup because the newsgroup seemed like a better place to have a 
> back-and-forth conversation. A summary of, and pointer to, this 
> conversation is on the wiki page.)
>
> >>>>>>> Bjorn Freeman-Benson said:
> >>>>>>> on behalf of the Architecture Council:
> >>>>>>> At the October 2006 Architecture Council meeting in Esslingen
> >>>>>>> (http://www.eclipse.org/org/councils/20061012ACMinutes.php),
> >>>>>>> the Architecture Council rejected the idea of becoming
> >>>>>>> responsible for mentoring new projects. Consequently, this
> >>>>>>> process will need to include a fourth "Mentors Council".
> >>>>>>> The rewritten sections are below.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * The "Architecture Council" is responsible for reviewing
> >>>>>>> the architecture of the Eclipse projects.
> >>>>>>> * The "Mentors Council" is responsible for ensuring the
> >>>>>>> Principles of the Development Process through mentorship.
> >>>>>>> Membership in the Mentors Council is identical to that of
> >>>>>>> the Planning and Architecture Councils described in the
> >>>>>>> Bylaws through Strategic Membership, PMCs, and by
> >>>>>>> appointment. The Mentors Council will, at least annually,
> >>>>>>> recommend to the EMO(ED) Eclipse Members who have sufficient
> >>>>>>> experience, wisdom, and time to be appointed to the Mentors
> >>>>>>> Council and serve as mentors. Appointed members of the
> >>>>>>> Mentors Council are appointed to three year renewable terms.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dave Bernstein said:
> >>>>>> Addressing the need for mentorship with a 4th Council would
> >>>>>> be highly inappropriate. The "Requirements", "Planning",
> >>>>>> and "Architecture Councils" all have explicit roles in the
> >>>>>> "Roadmap Workflow"; the proposed "Mentors Council" would have
> >>>>>> no such role. Unlike the other three Councils, its members
> >>>>>> would not discharge their responsibilities via intra-council
> >>>>>> deliberation and collaboration. The need to mentor new
> >>>>>> projects should instead be satified by establishing an
> >>>>>> "Eclipse Coaching Squad" populated by distinguished
> >>>>>> contributors chosen by the EMO. Each newly-formed Project
> >>>>>> would be assigned a Coach from this Squad.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bjorn Freeman-Benson said:
> >>>>> Dave, other than eleven different letters in the words, what
> >>>>> is the difference between a Mentors Council and an Eclipse
> >>>>> Coaching Squad?
> >>>>
> >>>> Rich Main said:
> >>>> Dave beat me to the punch on this comment!  The problem with
> >>>> adding a fourth council for mentoring is that the current
> >>>> councils have a certain level of authority within the
> >>>> development process that really does not apply to mentoring.
> >>>> Adding a mentoring council just muddies the waters
> >>>> unnecessarily.  It might be better to create a mentoring
> >>>> working group or some such.
> >>>
> >>> Dave Bernstein said:
> >>> I answered that question in my post above, Bjorn: a Mentors
> >>> Council would not be involved in the Roadmap Process as are
> >>> the other three councils, and unlike the other three Councils,
> >>> its members would not discharge their responsibilities via
> >>> intra-council deliberation and collaboration -- they would
> >>> individually engage with personnel from new projects.
> >>>
> >> Bjorn Freeman-Benson said:
> >> Rich, Dave: I guess I'm just not seeing the difference,
> >> although perhaps that doesn't matter - this document is not
> >> my document but rather our collective document so if your
> >> reading is the consensus, I'm fine with that. I see that this
> >> document (a) does not specify a role in the Roadmap process
> >> for the Mentors Council and (b) I do envision the Mentors
> >> Council meeting for cross-project collaboration and level
> >> setting. Add to that the fact that (c) the Architecture Council
> >> hasn't had a practical role in the Roadmap for a couple of
> >> years and I don't see the difference. But that's just me.
> >
> > Dave Bernstein said:
> > The only clues we have as to what you think a Mentor's Council
> > would do are
> >
> > * the statement "The Mentors Council is responsible for ensuring
> > the Principles of the Development Process through mentorship" above
> >
> > * the phrase "mentoring new projects" above
> >
> > * your recent comment that you "...envision the Mentors Council
> > meeting for cross-project collaboration and level setting"
> >
> > Cross-project collaboration seems very different than mentoring,
> > Bjorn; on exactly what would this proposed council collaborate?
> > When you say "level setting", exactly what levels would this
> > council set?
> >
> > If, as you say, "the Architecture Council hasn't had a practical role in 
> > the Roadmap for a couple of years", then there are two
> > possibilities:
> >
> > * none of the proposed Roadmap Themes and Priorities have
> > required architectural changes, and no changes have been required
> > to maintain long-term architectural viability
> >
> > * the Architecture Council has abdicated its responsibilities, and
> > the EMO has been negligent in not correcting the situation
> >
> > In either case, it would be suboptimal to dilute and obscure the
> > Council concept by mis-naming a group charged with providing
> > mentorship to new projects. Clarity and consistency is as important
> > in organization as it is in architecture.
>
> Dave, Rich: If the community prefers to call the mentoring group the 
> Coaching Squad rather than Council, I'm not going stand in their way. The 
> group will have the same behavior regardless of its name, so its minor 
> point. The group will meet from time to time to share experiences and 
> goals around mentoring and thus to ensure that all projects receives a 
> more or less consistent set of advice.
>
> On the Architecture Council issue: thanks for telling me that I've done a 
> poor job - I'm always looking for that kind of detailed feedback :-) If 
> you'd like more information about the Architecture Council you could talk 
> to the current members, read the minutes 
> (http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php), and talk to the Board 
> members (http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/directors.php). You 
> probably won't change your mind about how I've been negligent, but you may 
> learn more about the reality of the situation.
>
> - Bjorn