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[News.eclipse.foundation] Re: [NEWCOMER] - Evaluation Summary: What is Eclipse NOT !
I will only add that I do find Eclipse and JDT exemplary in many aspects of design
and implementation. It happens that some of the implementations are missing, inefficient and/or buggy.
In such case opening a bug helps much more than posting 10 criticizing messages.

I would suggest the comparison with the development of the Java language itself. Sun governs
the language, Sun seldom listens to developers and money plays a lot more significant role there.
Unfortunately I also don't expect Sun developers monitoring all the forums and answering
developers questions (there are exceptions though) as it happens with Eclipse.

In Russian there is a saying - "The man who pays the money gets to choose the music", and it applies to Eclipse as
well. Still, I feel my voice is heard here more than it would be with Java itself (although I had to write the RMI support myself :)

Genady

Eric Clayberg wrote:

"ilias" <ilias@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:opsfwpoagrrp2aut@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


eclipse is _not_ a no-cost production environment



Nothing is truly "no-cost".



eclipse is not a "write once run everywhere" solution



And neither is Java in general.



eclipse is not an overall elegant and efficient design



I couldn't disagree more. I find the design of Eclipse to be quite elegant
and efficient. I have been using Eclipse and SWT full time now for nearly
five years, and I used its predecessors from IBM for a nearly a decade
before that. Eclipse is the crowning achievement of one of the world's
greatest OO engineering groups (IBM's OTI Labs). It is extremely well
architected and extremely well engineered, and something that IBM and the
Eclipse community should be very proud of.



eclipse foundation is not fast and efficient
- User feedback is not processed immediately



Translation: they aren't doing back flips to respond to your every whim.

Mike has been doing a superb job in responding to you and keeping his cool
in the face of your continual provocations.

If you want them (or anyone) to pay any attention to you, you need to focus
your energies on one or two specific issues and work to address them. Your
(12 gauge) shotgun approach to criticizing everything in sight has resulted
in the good ideas that you have (and you do have some good ideas) being lost
in the noise.



- I've suggested to assist the eclipse foundation practically as an
independent, with the goal of a >=5% efficiency increase within 3 months
from now.
- No answer.



So...you offered your services to the Eclipse Foundation as a consultant to
improve their efficiency by *5%* and you didn't get an answer. Hmmm. Are you
honestly surprised by that? You've certainly got some brass ones, I'll grant
you that.

Here's a suggestion: leave them alone for awhile and you will improve their
efficiency by ay least 5% right off the bat.



- I close the eclipse case now quickly, as I cannot deal anymore with such
irrationality and inefficiency (apology! my aggression level has raised
due to several unanswered issues, including privacy policy complaints)



Unfortunately, your level of aggression has been quite apparent, and it has
all but drowned out any good suggestions that you have offered.



- Moving on to NetBeans.org now, picking it, starting to work.



OK, that works for me. I'm sure they will be much more appreciative of your
efforts.



The feedback/influence/contribution/information channels look much more
efficient @netbeans.org!



In that case, feel free to make liberal use of them.



As a conclusion, the product should have a much higher quality.



The product should have a much higher quality? While it isn't perfect, it
already has an exceptional level of quality. Eclipse is now the dominant
player in the Java IDE market for very good reason.

-Eric