[
Date Prev][
Date Next][
Thread Prev][
Thread Next][
Date Index][
Thread Index]
[
List Home]
|
[wtp-pmc] RE: [atf-dev] Open Mettings and getting the Source Code
|
Bjorn:
Let me respectfully disagree with your statements.
I have collaborated with the ATF team for several months now (to the
point that I am now part of it ), and I would qualify it as open and
transparent. This not the kind of "closed-shop" project you describe, as
I can witness.
It is being adopted by folks at JBoss, MyEclipse, Aptana and others.
It made important contributions to getting a Mozilla browser widget
generally available in the core 3.3 platform.
It does some important collaboration with other projects such as Mozilla
XULrunner and JavaXPCOM.
It is a small team that delivers.
Some project have more resource to dedicate than others to
communication, and some projects are quieter or less outgoing, pretty
much the same way some people can be quieter and less outgoing. We are
probably not the best buzz generators are there for sure :-)
Note that the statement you are referring to below is just about a
project lead stating that he is taking some vacations and trying to push
a release out of the door that very week. This is a small team, and
getting our fearless leader out is something serious.
Saying he is not available this week is both polite, open and
transparent in my book.
What is wrong with that?
I think the harshness of your comments is both unwarranted and
unjustified.
And here are some elements of answers to your other remarks:
>Your 2.1 downloads do not have the word "incubation" in them. Your
project is no longer "incubation-conforming".
I think the "0.21" drop predated the requirement to include the word
incubation in the file name, or happened just about the requirement came
into effect. The build scripts have been updated since.
I am sure you noted that the weekly build now complies with that
requirement.
Would you want us to rename all the legacy drops file names?
It would not make sense to me. Please elaborate. Are Eclipse process
requirements retro active?
>You are not using the standard Eclipse version numbering as 0.2.1 is
not (in Eclipse naming) a milestone of 0.2.
>It should be something more like 0.2.1M4.
There has been ongoing work to update the version numbering scheme.
I am not aware of requirements for milestone numbering beyond those for
Europa projects.
I am aware of a guideline for incubation to use milestones, a common
practice to use milestones number in the released file names by several
projects, but not a requirement.
Do we should or do we must?
>Are you all doing Eclipse-standard six week milestones aiming for a 1.0
release?
>You should be, but I don't see any documentation of it anywhere.
To the best of my knowledge, this is again a guideline, not a
requirement.
Are you saying we should or we must?
We are striving for the "just enough process" Eclipse is advocating for.
For now the project is going more towards frequent iterative drops, and
making sure those both conform to the requirements, and make sense from
a software engineering perspective.
Cordially
--
Cheers
Philippe
http://easyeclipse.org - http://phpeclipse.net - http://eclipse.org/atf
-----Original Message-----
From: atf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:atf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Bjorn Freeman-Benson
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:30 AM
To: atf-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx; wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'
Subject: Re: [atf-dev] Open Mettings and getting the Source Code
ATF Developers, Webtools PMC,
I was disappointed to read this statement (below) in the atf-dev mailing
list. A project is not open and transparent unless it is open and
transparent all the time. My experience is that people (and groups of
people; even me) always revert to base behavior under stress. In other
words, if you can't stay open and transparent during a "heads down"
cycle, then you aren't really committed to being open and transparent.
Related to that, I browsed around your mailing list archives, newsgroup
archives, and project website:
Your 2.1 downloads do not have the word "incubation" in them. Your
project is no longer "incubation-conforming".
You are not using the standard Eclipse version numbering as 0.2.1 is not
(in Eclipse naming) a milestone of 0.2. It should be something more like
0.2.1M4.
I couldn't find a project plan. I found this roadmap but it's out of
date. Plus it has no dates.
Are you all doing Eclipse-standard six week milestones aiming for a 1.0
release? You should be, but I don't see any documentation of it
anywhere.
I see that code is being written, but I don't see much/any discussion of
design, architecture, use cases, unit tests, or development in the dev
mailing list.
I looked at the ATF wiki. All but one of the pages haven't been touched
for more than nine months.
Etc.
The project is just not being very open and transparent. The WTP PMC
needs to crack down on the ATF project and either get them to be an open
and transparent and Eclipse-like project or to reboot the project with a
different team that will be. This could be a really cool project for
Eclipse and the Eclipse community. But not as a closed-shop project with
an open source repository. It's not good for Eclipse and it's not good
for Webtools and it's not good for the ATF project itself.
Bjorn Freeman-Benson
Director, Open Source Process
Eclipse Foundation
voice: 971-327-7323 (Pacific Time)
email: bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx
From: atf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:atf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Robert Goodman
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:13 PM
To: AJAX Toolkit Framework discussion
Subject: Re: [atf-dev] Open Mettings and getting the Source Code
Victor
We do generally have an open meeting. At this time the team is heads
down trying to get something out the door real soon and before I go on
vacation. We are just having impromptu meetings until we get over the
hump. I will send you a note, once we get the meetings started again. We
are obviously interested in people who would like to contribute to the
project.
...
Thanks
Bob
Victor Osório <xmv746@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: atf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
07/25/2007 01:14 PM
Please respond to
AJAX Toolkit Framework discussion <atf-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Toatf-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
cc
Subject[atf-dev] Open Mettings and getting the Source Code
Robert,
We are interested in the ATF Project and we would like to know if
the the project has Open Mettings. How we can participate from this
meetings?
