| [wtp-dev] And Desktop is definitely a thing anymore. |
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Hello All The discussion went on other topic so renaming it. (Quoted, incorrect grammar makes think) If there would be voting on making JSDT top level project independent of WTP, I would vote up. Meanwhile there is Bug 424937 - New forum for _javascript_ language or Web platform. Please comment/vote. https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=424937 _javascript_ server side is not only Node.js, there is also PhantomJS (great lightweight headless browser, good for automated testing, supports WebDriver ), MongoDB. All 3 use V8 engine from WebKit. And now Java 8 Nashorn engine with good promises. Now as Web became platform, a browser with developer addon became IDE. Those browser are written in C/C++, Java inside browser did not succeed early before. What should Java do? Make 100% Java-based browser. Those attempts were done 10-15 years before, but they failed because of big performance difference. But now as Java, and _javascript_ engines are so close to C/C++, it does not matter what language to use per se. It is libraries and infrastructure that make difference. I would love to discuss 100% Java browser (email me anytime, especially if you know someone doing/researching that). Of course such browser would have super features exposed for Java plugins. And such component, even if implemented very simplistic, would be great replacement/alternative for OS browser that Eclipse currently uses by default. (One more topic related to desktop is mobile. Maybe in some years Android will go desktop, but I hope to see Eclipse on Android tablet before that) Paul On 24.01.2014 1:25,
wtp-dev-request@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Send wtp-dev mailing list submissions to wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wtp-dev-request@xxxxxxxxxxx You can reach the person managing the list at wtp-dev-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of wtp-dev digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Anyone going to EclipseCon ? (Doug Schaefer) 2. Re: Anyone going to EclipseCon ? (Gorkem Ercan) 3. Re: Anyone going to EclipseCon ? (Gorkem Ercan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 17:03:15 +0000 From: Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> To: General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues. <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? Message-ID: <CF06B3E4.DDE3%dschaefer@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" BTW, for the record, JSDT is critical for Node.js and Qt as well. Cordova is just another one of these. I don?t think there?s much benefit to moving them. As long as the rules put in place by the WTP PMC don?t prevent us or make it hard to do what we need to do. And Desktop is definitely a thing anymore. You?re likely typing at one right now. And you?re running your JSDT on one. ;). They?re just reverting back to their roots when Workstations were king for content creators and engineers. Doug. From: Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx>> Reply-To: "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>> Date: Thursday, January 23, 2014 at 11:53 AM To: "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? Inlined.. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx<mailto:dschaefer@xxxxxxx>> wrote: I?m OK with Tools, since I?m on the PMC there :). Maybe we need to move the HTML, CSS, and _javascript_ tooling there too so that it can be reused in non-Web stacks (thinking out of the box that is)? Either way, we need to involve the WTP at some level. I do not think project dependencies should be a big factor on selecting top level project. but I agree the progress of JSDT is crucial for the Hybrid Mobile tools so WTP needs to be involved. What do you think the benefits of moving JSDT and SSE out of WTP would be? BTW, I find it hard to think of Mobile as a thing anymore. The programming technologies we?re running there are almost all taken from the desktop, including HTML5 and friends. I remember our old friend Doug Gaff mentioning at an early EclipseCon that this convergence was going to happen, and it certainly has. Agreed but I think it is the other way around.. Desktop is not a thing anymore Doug. From: Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx>> Reply-To: "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>> Date: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 at 12:33 PM To: Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>>, "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? Unfortunately, Eclipse no longer has an obvious top level project for mobile. For Cordova tools (I called it Hybrid Mobile Tooling actually) , I was leaning towards Tools Project because WTP does not mix with mobile much. -- Gorkem On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: On 21/01/2014 12:51 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote: Be a nice addition to WTP Doug, I am curious as to why you think WTP would be the natural home for Cordova tooling? To be clear, I don't personally care. I'm just having a hard time making the connection. -- Mike Milinkovich mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx> +1.613.220.3223<tel:%2B1.613.220.3223> _______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev _______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/private/wtp-dev/attachments/20140123/6f046ad9/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 12:20:19 -0500 From: Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx> To: "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? Message-ID: <CA+X37cmBcZ8H-ML0A6vXYKKuQE24aoTUz9i1grjcxs7GQznrig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No doubt that WTP hosts most of the web technology related tools and JS EPP would be a great addition. However I think WTP has stagnated and could not pass beyond JEE and server based technologies while the web technologies did. This may all be my perception but WTP charter[1] talking in detail about server based apps on scope does not help either. I have nothing against server based apps, I am still a committer for WTP Server tools, but WTP needs less server and JEE and more node.js, cordova to change its stagnated perception. [1] http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/project-charter.html On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Chuck Bridgham <cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx>wrote:Hi everyone, Sorry for not replying earlier, but I must agree with Doug, WTP already contains the static web technology tools mentioned (JSDT, css, html) that has recently seen an uptick in activity :) If the question is around flexible packaging options, up until recently we offered the _javascript_ EPP(limited resource and interest forced us to reture this option). This could be seen as a foundation for a mobile subproject etc... WTP would of course welcome this community :) Thanks ------------------------------ *Chuck Bridgham* 4205 S Miami Blvd Architect, WebSphere Developer Tools Durham, North Carolina 27703-9141 Eclipse WTP PMC Lead USA Phone: 919-254-1848 Mobile: 919-345-7657 e-mail: cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------ From: Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> To: Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>, " wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx" <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Date: 01/23/2014 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? Sent by: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------ Well, you would use the editors from the Web Developer Tools as a base for building Cordova apps. I guess we could add the relatively small Cordova build tools support in a Tools project. The bigger point though is that more and more environments are based on HTML, CSS, and _javascript_. We need to make sure the tooling we have at Eclipse can meet all those needs. If you have an idea on a project structure that can help with that, it would certainly help. Doug. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network. Original Message From: Mike Milinkovich Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 5:21 PM To: wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx Reply To: mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? On 21/01/2014 12:51 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:Be a nice addition to WTPDoug, I am curious as to why you think WTP would be the natural home for Cordova tooling? To be clear, I don't personally care. I'm just having a hard time making the connection. -- Mike Milinkovich mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx +1.613.220.3223 _______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev _______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev _______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/private/wtp-dev/attachments/20140123/8feb97c8/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 360 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/private/wtp-dev/attachments/20140123/8feb97c8/attachment.gif> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 12:25:21 -0500 From: Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx> To: "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? Message-ID: <CA+X37ckt9VU7=rKR8OYvtxmQ3rUUaB56qU2R_7OxL8Z0_3suKA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> wrote:BTW, for the record, JSDT is critical for Node.js and Qt as well. Cordova is just another one of these. I don?t think there?s much benefit to moving them. As long as the rules put in place by the WTP PMC don?t prevent us or make it hard to do what we need to do. And Desktop is definitely a thing anymore. You?re likely typing at one right now. And you?re running your JSDT on one. ;). They?re just reverting back to their roots when Workstations were king for content creators and engineers.Yeap, guilty on running a desktop. I do not think this should be further discussed without beer though :)Doug. From: Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx> Reply-To: "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." < wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Thursday, January 23, 2014 at 11:53 AM To: "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." < wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? Inlined.. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> wrote:I?m OK with Tools, since I?m on the PMC there :). Maybe we need to move the HTML, CSS, and _javascript_ tooling there too so that it can be reused in non-Web stacks (thinking out of the box that is)? Either way, we need to involve the WTP at some level.I do not think project dependencies should be a big factor on selecting top level project. but I agree the progress of JSDT is crucial for the Hybrid Mobile tools so WTP needs to be involved. What do you think the benefits of moving JSDT and SSE out of WTP would be?BTW, I find it hard to think of Mobile as a thing anymore. The programming technologies we?re running there are almost all taken from the desktop, including HTML5 and friends. I remember our old friend Doug Gaff mentioning at an early EclipseCon that this convergence was going to happen, and it certainly has.Agreed but I think it is the other way around.. Desktop is not a thing anymoreDoug. From: Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx> Reply-To: "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." < wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 at 12:33 PM To: Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Anyone going to EclipseCon ? Unfortunately, Eclipse no longer has an obvious top level project for mobile. For Cordova tools (I called it Hybrid Mobile Tooling actually) , I was leaning towards Tools Project because WTP does not mix with mobile much. -- Gorkem On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Mike Milinkovich < mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On 21/01/2014 12:51 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:Be a nice addition to WTPDoug, I am curious as to why you think WTP would be the natural home for Cordova tooling? To be clear, I don't personally care. I'm just having a hard time making the connection. -- Mike Milinkovich mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx +1.613.220.3223 _______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev_______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev_______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/private/wtp-dev/attachments/20140123/9d8bd6e0/attachment.html> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ wtp-dev mailing list wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wtp-dev End of wtp-dev Digest, Vol 107, Issue 20 **************************************** |
