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Re: [wtp-dev] Modelling multiple runtimes in one server

Hi Tim,

Your explanation was what I needed to see that I can just add any of these runtime mappings to any server...
for some reason I read it as there would only be one such mapping.

I need to digg deeper to see how well I can use this....I'll be back ;)

/max

Konstantin probably has a better answer than I, but the simple answer is
that your choices are either 'all', or 'opt in'.

If your new facet is something that all servers inherently support, you
can use * in your runtime mapping so that all servers will support the
facet immediately. If your new facet doesn't work on all servers, requires checking if a jar is available, or at a minimum someone needs to say "yes,
this server supports that", then you need to use the server id static (or
dynamic) mapping. You can create mappings for as many servers as you're
aware of and don't need to duplicate anything, since these extension
points can be created by a 'third-party' and included in any plugin.
However, since someone needs to explicitly decide, there will always be
cases where a server you didn't know about supports your facet but the
tools don't allow it until someone adds the extension.

It's incredibly hard to create a system that can cover cases like these
well - e.g. where you create a new facet in your adopter product and it
should automatically work with some but not all servers in a completely
different and unknown adopter product. If you have any suggestions on how
to extend or improve on this, Konstantin & I are always available in
bugzilla too.

Thanks,
Tim deBoer
deboer@xxxxxxxxxx



From:
"Max Rydahl Andersen" <max.andersen@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
"General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues."
<wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
09/23/2008 04:36 PM
Subject:
Re: [wtp-dev] Modelling multiple runtimes in one server



On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:44:18 +0200, Tim deBoer <deboer@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Max,

Responding to your questions:

> The runtime components extension point is used in every server
adapter

> to declare the component that represents the core application server.

Yes, but it is not used for something *usefull* as far as I can see ;)

Not unless you consider allowing users to target a facetted project to
your server. ;) All servers need to use one mechanism or the other (or a
combination of both) to accept standard WTP facetted projects. The
benefit
of this extension is that it is simple, static, and lightweight.

They only use it to declare "yay-i can have my stuff and java stuff"
associated with me.

My "fear" is that if I add these kind of runtimes for parts of our
functionallity in JBoss Tools
I will no longer be able to use the runtime dependent parts on other App
servers because they
don't declare the same runtime facilities...and then I have a bigger
problem than what I started with
(lockin of features to JBoss AS that shouldn't require a lockin)

I could of course duplicate all major WTP server adopters and include the
runtime support but
that will be very confusing for users.

> The internalRuntimeComponentProviders extension point is not used in
WTP
> directly, but is used in several adopter products from different
> companies.

Anyone of these with source available to see it being used ?

None that I am aware of post source, and all of the server adapters
included in WTP use the static linking above. This extension point is
fairly straightforward to use though, and Konstantin's blog contains a
full sample.

Yes, I understand the sample; but i'm looking to understand how these
other vendors avoid
feature lock-in (maybe they don't care ? :)

/max

Tim deBoer
deboer@xxxxxxxxxx



From:
"Max Rydahl Andersen" <max.andersen@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
"konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx"
<konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues."
<wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
09/19/2008 12:53 PM
Subject:
Re: [wtp-dev] Modelling multiple runtimes in one server



On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:13:57 +0200, Konstantin Komissarchik
<konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The runtime components extension point is used in every server adapter
to declare the component that represents the core application server.

Yes, but it is not used for something *usefull* as far as I can see ;)

The internalRuntimeComponentProviders extension point is not used in
WTP

directly, but is used in several adopter products from different
companies.

Anyone of these with source available to see it being used ?

-max

Oracle
Konstantin Komissarchik | Consulting Member of Technical Staff
Phone: +1 425 201 1795 | Mobile: +1 206 898 0611
Oracle Eclipse Tooling
411 108th Ave NE, Suite 2100 | Bellevue, WA 98004

-----Original Message-----
From: Max Rydahl Andersen [mailto:max.andersen@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:28 AM
To: konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx; General discussion of
project-wide or architectural issues.
Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Modelling multiple runtimes in one server

Hi Konstantin,

If this does what I think it does from the first readthrough and
browsing
related sourcecode then
the faceted API just earned an extra couple of stripes! :)

I'll follow up on the blogpost if I bump into some issues, but one
worry

I
have is that *no* code in
WTP seem to use this extension points (except for the JavaVM
runtime)...is
it just not known and used
by anyone ?

/max

Max,

The answer that you are looking for is runtime components. Rather than
answer your question fully in e-mail, I made a blog post instead. This
will make it easier to google for in the future plus I understand all
the cool kids are into blogs these days. :)



http://lt-rider.blogspot.com/2008/09/facets-faq-supporting-modular-runtimeshtml



Let me know if something is not clear and feel free to post questions
/
comments to the blog.

Oracle
Konstantin Komissarchik | Consulting Member of Technical Staff
Phone: +1 425 201 1795 | Mobile: +1 206 898 0611
Oracle Eclipse Tooling
411 108th Ave NE, Suite 2100 | Bellevue, WA 98004

-----Original Message-----
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Max Rydahl Andersen
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:49 PM
To: wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [wtp-dev] Modelling multiple runtimes in one server

Hi,

$subject have been on my mind for a long time and I have been looking
high
and low for answers
but I just can't get my head around how this is supposed to be done in
WTP/Facets.

JBoss AS is a server that you can start and stop, but such server will
be
able to contain multiple runtimes,
i.e. J2EE, Portal, ESB, SIP-server etc. Each of these runtimes can be
expressed as being able to
have one or more facets enabled/disabled on it and these runtimes can
all
be used separatly and together.

*but* I don't see how WTP support this notion. Each server can only
have
*one* runtime.

The only way I can see this work is to allow *any* facet to be
installed
on JBoss AS server even though
that is wrong dependent on which configuration users are activating -
but
that means that users can
enable facets on a server that won't work if deployed....

How is the facet framework supposed to be used with this ? Which
servers
are limited to only one specific runtime/deployment scenario ?

--
/max
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--
/max

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--
/max


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