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RE: [wsvt-dev] what's the plan for wsvt?

Hi Lawrence,

Certainly I can make wsvt ant build tool work by getting rid of dependences on other eclipse plugins or environment. In fact, that's what I did. But I think wsvt could have a better out-of-box experience for end users so that they don't have to dig into the code base at the very beginning to just compile the code.

e.g. In the build.xml in org.eclipse.wsdl.validate plugin, all classpaths depend on 

	<property name="basews" value="${ws}"/>

which I have to spend some time to figure it out. Better out-of-box experience may be able to attract more users.

you can certainly argue that if a wsdl file is not xml conformant, there's no point to do wsdl validation. well, there are other user senarios here. e.g., if I have my own xml validation tool, which is better or more fit to my own usage than wsvt xml conformance validation, I want to use my own tool to validate xml conformance, but want to use wsvt wsdl and wsi tool to do other validation. there's no way to do this right now with wsvt out of box.

the way wsvt is using is 

    if (validateXML(valInfo))
    {
      if (validateWSDL(valInfo, wsdlNamespace) && (wsiLevel == WSI_REQUIRE || wsiLevel == WSI_SUGGEST))
      {
        validateWSIConformance(valInfo);
      }
    }

This is a mandatory process, one step prerequesiting another.

the function I like most in wsvt is the err report mechenism wrapped around the original wsi-test-tools downloaded from ws-i website. To use wsi toolkit, you have to provide a config file (usually manually) specifying the port, parent node, namespace, wsdl url, etc, and have to dig into the report for final result.

wsvt.wsi did a good job to simplify this process and user can get results directly. This is the part really useful to me, otherwise i have to write similar stuff myself.

thanks,
--Bo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Mandel [mailto:lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 6:23 PM
> To: wsvt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [wsvt-dev] what's the plan for wsvt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Bo,
> 
> >Independent toolkit, I mean three thing: one is wsvt is 
> independend from
> eclipse,
> >which is almost there right now except those build environments like
> build.xml
> 
> WSVT builds with Ant through Eclipse's standard process but 
> you can set it
> up to build with another tool if you'd prefer.
> 
> >the other is that wsvt plugins are independend from one 
> another. Currently
> >wsdl.validate plugin, to my knowledge, has dependence from 
> wsi-test-tools
> plugin.
> 
> The WSDL validator has been freed from its dependency on the WS-I test
> tools plugin! You can see in CVS that the wsdl.validate.wsi 
> plugin does
> have a dependency but that's because it wraps the WS-I test 
> tools to allow
> them to plug-in to the WSDL validator.
> 
> >there's no way to simply use my own wsi-test-tools 
> installation rather
> than the
> >bundled one. we should make wsi-test-tools.home and even its schema
> location configurable.
> 
> Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean you can't install 
> the WS-I test
> tools by themselves or that you can't take another WS-I 
> conformance tool
> and use it with the WSDL validator?
> 
> >the last one is the conformance validation of xml, wsdl and 
> wsi should be
> independend
> >from one another. Right now you can NOT do wsi vadlition if 
> you don't do
> wsdl first,
> >and you can't do wsdl validation without validating xml first.
> 
> If you're looking to do simple XML validation on a WSDL file 
> this can be
> done with a Xerces parser. Hopefully there will be an Eclipse 
> XML validator
> shortly (please see the Web Tool Project Proposal.)
> When talking about WSDL validation, it really doesn't make 
> sense to talk
> about it without XML validation. It is not possible to 
> perform semantic
> WSDL validation without a valid XML document.
> It is currently possible to validate a WSDL document for WS-I 
> conformance
> without running the WSDL validator. The WS-I test tools can be used
> stand-alone to perform WS-I WSDL validation and message validation.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Lawrence
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                                                               
>              
>              "Wang, Bo"                                       
>              
>              <BWANG@xxxxxxxx>                                 
>              
>              Sent by:                                         
>           To 
>              wsvt-dev-admin@ec         <wsvt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
>              
>              lipse.org                                        
>           cc 
>                                                               
>              
>                                                               
>      Subject 
>              06/07/2004 05:44          RE: [wsvt-dev] what's 
> the plan for  
>              PM                        wsvt?                  
>              
>                                                               
>              
>                                                               
>              
>              Please respond to                                
>              
>                  wsvt-dev                                     
>              
>                                                               
>              
>                                                               
>              
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Lawrence,
> 
> Thanks a lot for quick response.
> 
> > d) Can you specify what you mean by "an independent toolkit'?
> Independent toolkit, I mean three thing: one is wsvt is 
> independend from
> eclipse, which is almost there right now except those build 
> environments
> like build.xml
> 
> the other is that wsvt plugins are independend from one 
> another. Currently
> wsdl.validate plugin, to my knowledge, has dependence from 
> wsi-test-tools
> plugin. there's no way to simply use my own wsi-test-tools 
> installation
> rather than the bundled one. we should make 
> wsi-test-tools.home and even
> its schema location configurable.
> 
> the last one is the conformance validation of xml, wsdl and 
> wsi should be
> independend from one another. Right now you can NOT do wsi 
> vadlition if you
> don't do wsdl first, and you can't do wsdl validation without 
> validating
> xml first.
> 
> thanks again,
> --Bo
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lawrence Mandel [mailto:lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:19 PM
> > To: wsvt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [wsvt-dev] what's the plan for wsvt?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Bo,
> >
> > First off, glad to hear you're interested in the WSVT project
> > and thanks
> > for posting your questions. Here are some answers.
> >
> > a) WSVT is currently working towards 3 major goals.
> >      1. Upgrading the WS-I test tools to support the WS-I
> > Basic Profile
> > 1.1, SSBP 1.0 and the Attachments Profile 1.0. This is
> > ongoing work as the
> > profiles have not yet been finalized.
> >      2. Upgrading the WSDL validator to support WSDL 2.0.
> > This is also a
> > work in progress as WSDL 2.0 is not final.
> >      3. Enhancing the SOAP monitor to allow on the fly
> > message modification
> > and replaying of messages. Really, taking this tool from a
> > monitoring tool
> > to a diagnostic tool.
> > If there are specific features you want or require please let
> > us know and
> > we will see if and how they can be fit into the WSVT plan. 
> (I see that
> > you've opened a few defects/enhancements. Thanks! You're
> > welcome to provide
> > us with a patch as well. We'll test it and if it's good we'll
> > commit it.)
> >
> > b) WSVT is available for Eclipse. It will be ready for
> > Eclipse 3.0 when it
> > ships.
> >      WSVT will be used in the next version of IBM's 
> WebSphere Studio.
> >      WSDL validation is available as an Ant task.
> >      WSDL and WS-I validation and SOAP message monitoring are
> > available as
> > command line tasks.
> > I'm not aware of other products using WSVT yet but I have
> > heard there is
> > interest in using these tools.
> >
> > c) I can't say why the traffic is low but we are continually
> > looking for
> > ways to promote the project to increase interest. To all
> > reading, if you
> > have questions/comments/concerns please post them. We won't 
> know your
> > thoughts on the WSVT tools unless you tell us.
> >
> > d) Can you specify what you mean by "an independent toolkit'?
> > WSVT is an
> > Eclipse project but we are interested in making it as
> > reusable as possible.
> > All of the WSVT tools can be run from the command line.
> >
> > We can schedule a time to speak on the phone. I would like to
> > keep general
> > WSVT questions in the mailing list and newsgroup as much as
> > possible to
> > keep everyone informed.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >              "Wang, Bo"
> >
> >              <BWANG@xxxxxxxx>
> >
> >              Sent by:
> >           To
> >              wsvt-dev-admin@ec         <wsvt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >              lipse.org
> >           cc
> >
> >
> >
> >      Subject
> >              06/07/2004 12:51          [wsvt-dev] what's the
> > plan for
> >              PM                        wsvt?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >              Please respond to
> >
> >                  wsvt-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> >
> > It's kind of quiet here. After playing with wsvt a little 
> bit, I think
> > we've got a very good tool with a code base of quality here.
> > However it's
> > still not product-ready yet. I've reported a few bugs and
> > some enhancement
> > requests.
> >
> >
> > I have a few general questions here:
> >
> >
> > a) what's the plan for wsvt down the road, say, by the end of
> > this year?
> >
> >
> > b) do we have any idea about who or which product is using wsvt?
> >
> >
> > c) why is there such low traffic here? wsvt has been
> > mentioned a lot in
> > wsdl community. Buzz is there but momentum has not been
> > generated yet, or
> > at least not reflected here.
> >
> >
> > d) is there any plan to make wsvt as an independent toolkit?
> >
> >
> > we're in the process of evaluation wsvt, if decided to go
> > with it, we might
> > be able to commit significant resource to this project. Is
> > there any way of
> > discussing all these, say by concall or something?
> >
> >
> > thanks in advance,
> > --Bo
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wsvt-dev mailing list
> > wsvt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/wsvt-dev
> >
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