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Re: [virgo-dev] Snaps

Hi Wayne

Perhaps some other examples would help. The Virgo project includes several samples which we have traditionally released with their own independent version numbers and on schedules somewhat disconnected from that of Virgo (and previously dm Server). It seems like we need the EDP to change in order to continue that practice, otherwise we'll need a separate subproject for each sample which would, IMHO, be bureaucracy gone mad given that some of the samples are quite small.

We are also in the process of contributing the bundlor tool and the eclipse based Virgo tooling into Virgo and these also have independent version numbers and disconnected release cycles: another couple of subprojects unless the EDP can be changed.

I guess a fully-fledged runtime with associated runtime libraries (e.g. snaps), samples, and tooling is unlike the older Eclipse IDE project which targets a release train and is essentially a collection of IDE plugins.

So please can you give some more thought to changing the EDP?

Regards,
Glyn

On 17 Dec 2010, at 18:35, Wayne Beaton wrote:

> If SNAPS is a sub-project then it can do whatever you and the parent
> project (and PMC) feel is right. FWIW, you could make it a subproject of
> Virgo, or of RT, or of Technology, or whatever else makes sense for you.
> 
> Functional areas within a project can make all the
> milestones/i-builds/nightlies they'd like. We're just a little careful
> about how we use the word "release".
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Wayne
> 
> On 12/17/2010 12:53 PM, Dmitry Sklyut wrote:
>> Wayne,
>> 
>> Thank you for clarification.  Still learning here. 
>> That was an initial concern for me.  Would making SNAPS a sub-project
>> allow it to be released and versioned independently from virgo?  From
>> quick reading
>> of http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/development_process_2010.php
>> I could not be sure if that is the case.
>> 
>> What I really want is to do a milestone release.  This will allow
>> interested parties to work with binaries vs. building from sources, thus
>> hopefully bringing more feedback into this component.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dmitry
>> 
>> p.s. Idea of a BAD-BOY qualifier is shelved for now :)
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Wayne Beaton <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> 
>>    Sorry if I've missed something here.
>> 
>>    The EDP does not support the notion of "releasing" parts of projects,
>>    just projects. Further, projects only have one version number per
>>    release. So strictly speaking, SNAPS--as part of Virgo--can be included
>>    in the next release of Virgo with the same version number, but SNAPS
>>    itself cannot release separately (making matters slightly more
>>    complicated, it's okay for individual features/bundles to have whatever
>>    version number makes sense to you).
>> 
>>    Having said all that, I am willing to discuss changes to the EDP to
>>    permit this if (a) it really does make sense, and (b) it is accepted by
>>    the broader community and eco-system. I really don't want to put up
>>    unnecessary barriers, and am particularly fond of pulling them down. But
>>    the fact of the matter is that the Eclipse community has successfully
>>    conformed to this particular rule for some time and we'll need some time
>>    to determine if a change makes sense.
>> 
>>    Does this make sense?
>> 
>>    Wayne
>> 
>>    On 12/17/2010 11:59 AM, Dmitry Sklyut wrote:
>>> In that case how about 1.0.0.M01?
>>> 
>>> 0.9.0 means a lot of changes in the tests and manifests and plans.
>>> 
>>> I will set-up documentation project and this will keep version stable.
>>> How about it?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Dmitry
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Glyn Normington
>>> <gnormington@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnormington@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>    <mailto:gnormington@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnormington@xxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Hi Dmitry
>>> 
>>>    Of course I forgot to mention the obvious. If we want to release
>>>    snaps, snaps must go through a release review.
>>> 
>>>    The alternative, if you simply want to get binaries out there,
>>    is to
>>>    ship (don't use the 'r' word) a milestone such as 0.9.0.M01.
>>> 
>>>    Regards,
>>>    Glyn
>>> 
>>>    On 17 Dec 2010, at 14:45, Dmitry Sklyut wrote:
>>> 
>>>>    Agree.  Bad boy is to be versioned with 0.9.0.RELEASE until
>>>>    documentation comes online.
>>>> 
>>>>    I just really think it is time for snaps to have a binary release
>>>>    and not force users to build from sources.
>>>> 
>>>>    Hmmm...  What about 0.9.0.RELESE-BAD-BOY.  Would be a valid OSGi
>>>>    qualifier.  :)
>>>> 
>>>>    On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Glyn Normington
>>>>    <gnormington@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnormington@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>    <mailto:gnormington@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:gnormington@xxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        Snaps is not production ready as it doesn't have any
>>>>        documentation, e.g. to describe the limitations. ;-)
>>>> 
>>>>        Regards,
>>>>        Glyn
>>>> 
>>>>        On 17 Dec 2010, at 14:39, Christopher Frost wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>        Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>>        Well, seeing as it's still just a bad boy and not a bad man
>>>>>        yet, how about 0.9.0.RELEASE
>>>>> 
>>>>>        Unless you feel he's production ready?
>>>>> 
>>>>>        Chris.
>>>>> 
>>>>>        On 17/12/2010 14:26, Dmitry Sklyut wrote:
>>>>>>        I am almost there.  Just wondering what version to release
>>>>>>        that bad boy with?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        1.0.0.RELEASE?
>>>>>>        2.1.0.RELEASE?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        Regards,
>>>>>>        Dmitry
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Christopher Frost
>>>>>>        <frostc@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:frostc@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>    <mailto:frostc@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:frostc@xxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>            Yes, this should be easy enough.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>            Your welcome to do this yourself Dmitry. Once you have
>>>>>>            stuck you ssh keys on the eclipse servers,
>>    git/build and
>>>>>>            build as the virgoBuild user. You will be able to do a
>>>>>>            release, the procedure for releasing a single repo
>>    is on
>>>>>>            the wiki, bottom of the build tab.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>            I'm happy to do it as well though, raise a bug if
>>    you like.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>            Chris.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>            On 16/12/2010 08:35, Glyn Normington wrote:
>>>>>>>            Hi Dmitry
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            Yes, tag away!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            We have weaned ourselves off publishing to zodiac
>>    since non-SpringSource committers cannot be given our S3 keys. I'll
>>    leave it to Chris, our build meister, to discuss the remaining
>>    options...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            Regards,
>>>>>>>            Glyn
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>            On 15 Dec 2010, at 18:59, Dmitry Sklyut wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>            Hi All,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>            Do you think it is time to take a snapshot of
>>    snaps and tag it as compatible with 2.1.0.RELEASE?
>>>>>>>>            It would be great also if snaps got published to
>>    some maven/ivy repo.  Right now I can't find it in zodiac.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>            Building it from source is getting to be a bit
>>    cumbersome :)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>            Regards,
>>>>>>>>            Dmitry
>>>>>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>            virgo-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>            virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>>>>>            https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/virgo-dev
>>>>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>            virgo-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>            virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>>>>            https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/virgo-dev
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>            --
>>>>>>            Chris Frost
>>>>>>            SpringSource <http://www.springsource.org/>, a division
>>>>>>            of VMware <http://www.vmware.com/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>            Virgo Website <http://www.eclipse.org/virgo>, Wiki
>>>>>>            <http://wiki.eclipse.org/Virgo> and Forum
>>>>>> 
>>    <http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=159
>>    <http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=159>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>>>            virgo-dev mailing list
>>>>>>            virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>>>            https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/virgo-dev
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>        --
>>>>>        Chris Frost
>>>>>        SpringSource <http://www.springsource.org/>, a division of
>>>>>        VMware <http://www.vmware.com/>
>>>>> 
>>>>>        Virgo Website <http://www.eclipse.org/virgo>, Wiki
>>>>>        <http://wiki.eclipse.org/Virgo> and Forum
>>>>> 
>>    <http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=159
>>    <http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=159>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>>        virgo-dev mailing list
>>>>>        virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>>        https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/virgo-dev
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>        virgo-dev mailing list
>>>>        virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>        https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/virgo-dev
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    virgo-dev mailing list
>>>>    virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>    https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/virgo-dev
>>> 
>>> 
>>>    _______________________________________________
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>>>    virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>    <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:virgo-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>    https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/virgo-dev
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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