Re: [tools-pmc] IDE

[David M Williams <david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Doug, 

While I'm sympathetic to your concerns
and goals, I am not in a position to sign-up for more work, at this point.


But, I have just enough time to offer
some feedback :) 

First, I'm not sure what you'd expect
this or any other "PMC" to do that is not already being done,
or could be done, by any PMC. By definition in the EDP,
= = =
Together the PMC provides oversight and overall leadership
for the projects that fall under their top-level project. The PMC as a
whole, and the PMC Leads in particular, are ultimately responsible for
ensuring that the Eclipse Development Process is understood and followed
by their projects. The PMC is additionally responsible for maintaining
the top-level project's charter. 
= = =

While there's nothing stopping a PMC from "doing
extra" or focusing their leadership in one area,  I see little
advantage of calling it or focusing on "PMC" part of any name.
For example, why not rekindle the "User_Interface" group and
form a true "cross-project team"? 
http://wiki.eclipse.org/User_Interface_Best_Practices_Working_Group

Put another way, it is committers that decide what to
work on, and a PMC has no "power" direct their work, other than
to encourage and cajole. 
While effective leaders are quite good at encouraging
and cajoling ... to get results ... I'm not sure the "location"
of those leaders matter that much, at the Eclipse Foundation. 

If you are hoping to get or show interest by a "name
change", you could form new "working group" and call it
the "IDE Usability Group", or something. 

And, if you do that, in the past, when we have had "cross-project
teams", the most successful ones, I have seen, had a very specific
set of goals to accomplish, and a very concrete time-line in which to accomplish
them ... such as 1 month, or 3 months ... they were not open ended expert
consulting or management teams. 

My last bit of feedback: how is proposing a new IDE PMC
not a "put down" of the Eclipse Project PMC? I think I know the
answer, and I think I know what you mean and think I know why it is not
a criticism of them, but in any descriptions or proposals you might want
to make that more clear ... well ... unless that is what you are trying
to do. :)  

Thanks for trying to turn our slow moving ship! 





From:      
 Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>
To:      
 Tools PMC mailing list
<tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>, 
Date:      
 07/18/2013 10:56 AM
Subject:    
   [tools-pmc]
IDE
Sent by:    
   tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

Hey gang,

We're having a pretty good discussion on
the cross-project list about the future of the Eclipse IDE and ways we
can bring in new blood in to help evolve it. There's a really hilarious
but painfully truthful site called http://ihateeclipse.com,
which highlights our users' passion and how much little (and sometimes
large) usability items affect their lives. But it points out areas that
we should be working on.

As part of the strategy, I think we need
a group that is focused on Eclipse as an IDE, to manage the strategy and
set up little things that can get us kickstarted. And it crosses many projects
which is why we can't just rely one on one. My first thoughts were that
we need an IDE PMC as that focal point. But then, it's probably obvious
that we, the Tools PMC, already have much of that mandate and oversee a
lot of the projects that make up the Eclipse IDE.

What are your thoughts? If we brought in
a few new members, possibly not from our projects, but people with a vested
interest in the Eclipse IDE, even peer PMC members and other community
leaders, and reposition the Tools PMC as the IDE PMC, would that make a
difference?

And, yes, we do have a pretty poor track
record of activity which we can't discount. But focusing specifically on
the Eclipse IDE packages and the projects that make up those packages and
providing them with "product" management, I have hope that we
can make a difference.

Let me know what you think, and that's
for anyone following the list, not just the PMC members.

Doug._______________________________________________
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