Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?

[Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>]

We’ll see how my remote stuff works out. I’m going to start working on it
tomorrow.

Now, the Launch Bar is not CDT specific. The remote targets are not CDT
specific either. In fact, I’d like to be able to build a remote Java
launch using the same code. I guess it’s a question of how we bring all
these things together. In fact, I’d love it if the TCF Terminals View
wasn’t tied to TCF so we could put it in with this pile. And maybe they
all should be in a project that focuses on the management of targets ;p.

I imagine if we had the commons project set up, we’d be doing a lot of
this there. The relationships are pretty complicated and I’ve been kind of
ignoring them so I can just build it and get things going. But I will make
sure I minimize the dependencies on CDT to just actual C/C++ things.

On 2014-11-25, 2:56 PM, "Greg Watson" <g.watson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Is your Targets View CDT specific, or is it something that might be
>useful to other projects? If the latter, then maybe it should go into
>org.eclipse.remote?
>
>Greg
>
>On Nov 25, 2014, at 2:13 PM, Doug Schaefer <DSchaefer@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> OK, here we go. I looked at the Target Explorer when considering a
>>Targets
>> View for the LaunchBar and found it to be too flexible and too hard to
>> extend. I didn’t see what it bought me over the standard jface
>> Content/Label providers. As such, I have created my own Targets View for
>> the launch bar and will be adding things like file and process browsers
>>to
>> it. This will be another alternative to replace RSE with the advantage
>>of
>> being tied nicely to the launch bar for Remote launches.
>> 
>> You can see this work in the CDT launch bar plug-ins and the Arduino
>>IDE I
>> am building out at github.com/dschaefer/wascana. More when I make more
>> progress there.
>> 
>> Note that this is all towards my work on supporting remote launches in
>>the
>> CDT using the org.eclipse.remote plug-ins and the jsch stuff in
>> particular. This is something CDT should have had a long time ago. And
>> with the LaunchBar making it easy to add remote targets and then
>> co-ordinating launch configurations to launch for them, it’s time. I am
>> working to get this done by the 8.6 CDT release in February.
>> 
>> Doug.
>> 
>> On 2014-11-25, 4:22 AM, "Stieber, Uwe" <Uwe.Stieber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>>> After having written a fair bit of code that extends RSE I do
>>>>certainly
>>>> agree with
>>>> others that it is not an ideal model, and so I am also interested in
>>>> what a
>>>> migration path looks like and would be interested in contributing work
>>>> there.
>>>> Like Uwe said in another follow on, maybe that looks like adding the
>>>> SSH/SFTP
>>>> to Target Explorer or something.  In practice our usage has tended to
>>>> mash-up
>>>> different underlying technologies on one connection.  In effect we are
>>>> using
>>>> SSH/SFTP for file system access and the terminal as well as the
>>>>ability
>>>> to spawn
>>>> remote processes and redirect stdio.  Then we additionally use
>>>> unrelated web
>>>> services on the same target to provide other objects in the tree (e.g.
>>>> power on
>>>> a VM, etc.).  So all that to say, a more flexible model in the tree
>>>> would be
>>>> great.   I know very little about it, but it does appear that the new
>>>> org.eclipse.remote API provides much of what we need minus a terminal,
>>>> but I
>>>> am not sure how that fits into an "explorer" view of one flavor or
>>>> another.
>>> 
>>> The "Target Explorer" had been designed with most possible flexibility
>>> and extentability in mind. In fact, the "System Management" view, which
>>> is Target Explorer equivalent to the "Remote Systems" view, is simply
>>>an
>>> instantiation of the Eclipse Common Navigator framework. You have the
>>> total flexibility and contribution possibilities of a Common Navigator.
>>> If you have ever done a contribution into the Eclipse Project Explorer,
>>> you can do a contribution into the "System Management" view too. You
>>> basically have the full control of all the views content right from the
>>> root nodes.
>>> 
>>> Right now, we do have a core Target Explorer + very complete TCF based
>>> extensions for remote filesystem browsing and editing, remote process
>>> launch and monitoring and debugging. The TCF project also hosts the new
>>> "Terminals" view bringing a lot of always asked for enhancements, like
>>> the support for local terminals on both Unix and Windows. This new
>>> "Terminals" view is the only maintained one and should be included in
>>>all
>>> packages and offerings used to include the outdated "Terminal" or "RSE
>>> Terminals" views. And the effort to get there is basically what
>>>triggered
>>> the thread here.
>>> 
>>> What we would like to see is a core Target Explorer +
>>>org.eclipse.remote
>>> based extensions for SSH/SFTP remote filesystem browsing and editing as
>>> well as remote process launching an monitoring. That's definitly the
>>>most
>>> desired contribution we would be very exited to see happening.
>>> 
>>> Best regards, Uwe :)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>On
>>>> Behalf Of Aaron Spear
>>>> Sent: Montag, 24. November 2014 18:03
>>>> To: TM project developer discussions; Michael Scharf
>>>> Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?
>>>> 
>>>> Hi again Doug et all,
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, certainly many are enjoying the fruit of the TM committers vision
>>>> and
>>>> labor, and we owe you all a very big debt of gratitude.  Thanks for
>>>>your
>>>> seemingly endless enthusiasm, energy and commitment to making great
>>>> software.  I do of course agree that it is not reasonable for my
>>>> company or
>>>> anyone else to expect you all to continue to maintain RSE out of the
>>>> goodness
>>>> of your heart (however good it may be, there is only so much a human
>>>> can do!)
>>>> 
>>>> Assuming that we or others with a vested interest are willing to step
>>>> up and
>>>> help, what would that look like?  It would appear that anyone that is
>>>> going to
>>>> help is not likely to be a current committer on the project since as
>>>> you said
>>>> there is no one left to do this.  I am not sure how that would work to
>>>> have
>>>> myself or someone else from VMware or Redhat etc. to jump in for
>>>> maintenance for the next release perhaps?
>>>> 
>>>> After having written a fair bit of code that extends RSE I do
>>>>certainly
>>>> agree with
>>>> others that it is not an ideal model, and so I am also interested in
>>>> what a
>>>> migration path looks like and would be interested in contributing work
>>>> there.
>>>> Like Uwe said in another follow on, maybe that looks like adding the
>>>> SSH/SFTP
>>>> to Target Explorer or something.  In practice our usage has tended to
>>>> mash-up
>>>> different underlying technologies on one connection.  In effect we are
>>>> using
>>>> SSH/SFTP for file system access and the terminal as well as the
>>>>ability
>>>> to spawn
>>>> remote processes and redirect stdio.  Then we additionally use
>>>> unrelated web
>>>> services on the same target to provide other objects in the tree (e.g.
>>>> power on
>>>> a VM, etc.).  So all that to say, a more flexible model in the tree
>>>> would be
>>>> great.   I know very little about it, but it does appear that the new
>>>> org.eclipse.remote API provides much of what we need minus a terminal,
>>>> but I
>>>> am not sure how that fits into an "explorer" view of one flavor or
>>>> another.
>>>> 
>>>> thanks again,
>>>> Aaron
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>On
>>>> Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 8:22 PM
>>>> To: TM project developer discussions; Michael Scharf
>>>> Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Aaron, good to hear from you again. I’m glad that Vmware, and
>>>> othercompanies, are enjoying the fruits of the hard work that the RSE
>>>> team
>>>> hasput in over the years. But as I’m sure you’re aware, these haven’t
>>>> beencharitable donations, and those who have contributed are now gone.
>>>> Theresno one left to do this for you. If you and others want it alive,
>>>> you needto
>>>> step up and invest in it.Doug.On 2014-11-21, 7:30 PM, "Aaron Spear"
>>>> <aspear@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:>Hi TM friends,>>I am a little unclear on
>>>>what
>>>> is being proposed here, but it sure looks>like you are talking about a
>>>> possible
>>>> end of life for RSE as we know it?>>I think you would probably be
>>>> surprised just
>>>> how many companies and>others are using RSE downstream.  VMware for
>>>> instance is using it for>file system, terminals, and other custom
>>>> services for a
>>>> number of>developer SDK's targeting our main products (including ESX
>>>> hypervisor,>vCenter, vCenter Orchestrator and others).  We actually
>>>> have a
>>>> subsystem>and such to support connecting to Windows boxes using CIFS
>>>> that
>>>> we were>thinking about contributing.  RSE certainly has its warts, but
>>>> it
>>>> still>has a place in our product lines and VMware would like to keep
>>>>it
>>>> around.>
>>>> I suspect there are other companies in this camp too.  Heck I find
>>>> it>generally
>>>> useful to have around while I am doing web development so that>I can
>>>> easily
>>>> edit remote configuration files in my local eclipse>seamlessly.>>Are
>>>>you
>>>> looking for new blood to jump in and maintain it?>>best regards,>Aaron
>>>> Spear,
>>>> VMware>>>-----Original Message----->From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On>Behalf Of Doug Schaefer>Sent:
>>>> Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:13 AM>To: Michael Scharf; TM project
>>>> developer discussions>Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM
>>>>3.7?>>We
>>>> quickly discussed this on the architecture council call and it
>>>> appears>there are
>>>> commits happening, but it¹s not being picked up by the portal>at the
>>>> moment.
>>>> So it¹s not quite dead yet :). But certainly at issue.>>Doug.>>On
>>>> 2014-11-13,
>>>> 11:10 AM, "Michael Scharf" <eclipse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:>>>+1 let it die
>>>> unless
>>>> someone steps up...>>>>Michael>>>>On 2014-11-13 15:52, Greg Watson
>>>> wrote:>>> I¹m fine with this if we have everyone¹s agreement.
>>>> Committers on
>>>> the>>>project are:>>>>>> € Anna Dushistova>>> € David McKnight>>> €
>>>>Greg
>>>> Watson>>> € Kevin Doyle>>> € Martin Oberhuber>>> € Michael Scharf>>> €
>>>> Uwe Stieber>>>>>> Assuming Martin and Uwe have already agreed, I¹d
>>>>like
>>>> to
>>>> have a +1>>>from Anna, David, Kevin, and Michael before proceeding. I
>>>> don¹t
>>>> think>>>we can proceed unless we have at least a majority of
>>>>committers
>>>> voting>>>+1.>>>>>> If we go ahead with archiving TM, I suggest we use
>>>> Luna
>>>> SR2 for the>>>final release and withdraw from Mars.>>>>>> Here¹s a
>>>> summary:>>>>>> 1. Announce TM change proposal to cross-project a.
>>>>Final
>>>> release of>>> TM 3.7 with Luna SR2 b. TM to withdraw from Mars 2.
>>>> Agreement from>>> TCF project to host Terminal 3. Approval from PMC
>>>>for
>>>> restructuring>>> review 4. Restructuring review to move Terminal to
>>>>TCF
>>>> 5.
>>>> Approval>>> from PMC for termination review 6. Termination review 7.
>>>>TM
>>>> is>>> archived>>>>>> Is this agreed? Anybody not in agreement?>>>>>>
>>>> Thanks,>>> Greg>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2014, at 6:13 AM, Oberhuber,
>>>> Martin>>><Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>><mailto:Martin.Oberhuber@
>>>> windriver.com>>>>>wrote:>>>>>>> Ok.>>>> If the plan of archiving TM
>>>> solidifies, we¹ll need to inform>>>>cross-project about that.>>>> Greg
>>>> are you
>>>> going to do that ?>>>> I could imagine that there will be a couple
>>>> downstream
>>>> projects who>>>>won¹t be happy about TM being archived, so better
>>>> announce
>>>> early.>>>> Thanks,>>>> Martin>>>> -->>>> *Martin Oberhuber*, SMTS /
>>>> Product Owner ­ Development Tools,*Wind>>>>River*>>>> direct
>>>> +43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6>>>>*From:*tm-dev-
>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>[mailto:tm-
>>>> dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]*On Behalf Of*Stieber, Uwe>>>>*Sent:*Thursday,
>>>> November 13, 2014 9:25 AM  *To:*TM project
>>>>developer>>>>discussions>>>>
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>> Hi Martin,>>>>
>>>> Sounds
>>>> like a plan to me.>>>> Best regards, UweJ>>>> *From:*tm-dev-
>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-
>>>> dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Oberhuber, Martin>>>>
>>>> *Sent:*Donnerstag, 13. November 2014 08:59  *To:*TM
>>>>project>>>>developer
>>>> discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>>
>>>>So,
>>>> following sounds like a plan:>>>> 1.Terminal is moved from TM to TCF
>>>> (that¹s
>>>> where the active>>>>committers>>>>are)>>>> 2.We need one more release
>>>>of
>>>> TM (Luna SR2 or Mars) such that we can>>>>clean up the dependencies on
>>>> the
>>>> Terminal  3.After that, TM can be>>>>archived as a project.>>>> Do the
>>>> committers agree ?>>>> Thanks,>>>> Martin>>>> -->>>> *Martin
>>>>Oberhuber*,
>>>> SMTS / Product Owner ­ Development Tools,*Wind>>>>River*>>>> direct
>>>> +43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6>>>>*From:*tm-dev-
>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-
>>>> dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Stieber, Uwe>>>>
>>>> *Sent:*Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:03 AM  *To:*TM
>>>>project>>>>developer
>>>> discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>> Hi
>>>> Greg,>>>> Well, I can speak only for Terminal and the Terminal is
>>>> definitely>>>>under active development. There might be just 2 active
>>>> committers>>>>left, myself and Martin Oberhuber from time to time, but
>>>> we
>>>> still do>>>>changes and we still need releases.>>>> I would be OK to
>>>> move out
>>>> the Terminal from the TM project but the>>>>proposed common project
>>>> where
>>>> things like the Terminal could live>>>>does not exist yet. I¹m also
>>>> fine with
>>>> moving the Terminal widget to>>>>the TCF project container, but
>>>>that¹s
>>>> something Martin Oberhuber>>>>needs to decide.>>>> For the Terminal,
>>>>the
>>>> main complains are not necessarily bugs at>>>>this point of time, the
>>>> main
>>>> complains are about the fact that you do>>>>have multiple Terminal
>>>> views in
>>>> Eclipse once RSE is installed. 2>>>>views are at least deprecated and
>>>> only  the
>>>> ³Terminals² view provided>>>>from the TCF project is maintained and
>>>> where
>>>> new features requested>>>>by the users are added. We have to get
>>>> the>>>>2
>>>> other Terminal views out of Eclipse to stop the user confusion.
>>>> The>>>>plan for
>>>> doing this is  outlined below, but this work does have some>>>>effect
>>>> on EPP
>>>> packages. I can do everything outlined below, but I>>>>don¹t know how
>>>> to get
>>>> the EPP packages updated to include the correct>>>>features.>>>> The
>>>> cleanup
>>>> of the multiple Terminal views should happen for the>>>>Mars
>>>> release.>>>>
>>>> Regarding the committer meetings, at least for me time is
>>>>limited>>>>and
>>>> discussing things here instead of a shared conference call
>>>>is>>>>easier
>>>> to
>>>> manage.>>>> Thanks, Best regards, UweJ>>>> *From:*tm-dev-
>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-
>>>> dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Greg Watson>>>>
>>>> *Sent:*Mittwoch, 12. November 2014 23:01  *To:*TM project
>>>> developer>>>>discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is
>>>>TM
>>>> 3.7?>>>> Hi Uwe,>>>> I¹m not sure of the plans at this point. I¹ve
>>>> asked this list
>>>> about>>>>the 3.6 version a couple of times but received no reply. I¹ve
>>>> also>>>>invited everyone to the PTP developers conference call to
>>>> discuss>>>>plans, but no one from TM ever  attended. At this point,
>>>>I¹m
>>>> assuming>>>>that the current release is the final release for TM.>>>>
>>>> I¹m not a
>>>> developer on the project, so I don¹t know what anyone¹s>>>>plans are
>>>> unless
>>>> they let me know. Also, developer¹s will need to>>>>step up and update
>>>> the
>>>> project plan, documentation, and anything else>>>>that needs to be
>>>> done. I can
>>>> fix the  outline of the plan, but>>>>someone else will need to fill in
>>>> the details.
>>>> Finally, we need>>>>people to test the builds before they are
>>>>released,
>>>> or we
>>>> can¹t say>>>>we¹re meeting Eclipse quality. This didn¹t seem to be
>>>> happening
>>>> for>>>>the SR1 release.>>>> Regards,>>>> Greg>>>> On Oct 30, 2014, at
>>>> 5:43
>>>> AM, Stieber, Uwe
>>>> <Uwe.Stieber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:Uwe.Stieber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:>>>>>>>> Hi Greg,>>>> Can you confirm that I¹m right in assuming
>>>> that
>>>> the master branch is>>>>leading to the TM 3.7 release? When will it be
>>>> released? I¹ve checked>>>>the TM project pages
>>>> 
>>>>undereclipse.org/tm>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http
>>>>-
>>>> 3A__eclipse.org_tm&d=A>>>>AIF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-
>>>> YihVMNtXt-
>>>> uEs&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJ>>>>t27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=g5KNm0_rR
>>>> Dpsx8IAZTePBHXZbMdB1kZoo_V--
>>>> 5hcjJ>>>>g&s=J15p7KqGXLIYotI2Ci3Ci_PI83Q9u9gs6TneSPJjhDk&e= >, but
>>>>this
>>>> pages>>>>are not up to date.>>>> If master is leading to the 3.7
>>>> release, I
>>>> would like to change at>>>>least the TM Terminal feature version
>>>>numbers
>>>> accordingly. Also I>>>>want to tackle a few Terminal related releasing
>>>> issues
>>>> we keep>>>>pushing ahead of us for a long time now.>>>> Not sure if
>>>>you
>>>> need
>>>> to announce them in some project lead meeting.>>>> 1.Deprecation of
>>>> unused
>>>> or no longer supported features  a.Take out>>>>the
>>>>o.e.tm.terminal.view
>>>> and
>>>> the o.e.tm.terminal.local from the build>>>>and repositories  b.Move
>>>>the
>>>> source of this features to>>>>terminal/deprecated folder to keep the
>>>> source
>>>> around for reference>>>>c.Remove the o.e.tm.terminal.core.sdk feature
>>>>as
>>>> without the>>>>terminal.view feature, the usual SDK feature is the
>>>>same
>>>> as
>>>> the>>>>core.sdk feature  2.Work on replacement for
>>>> org.eclipse.rse.terminal>>>>feature  a.Remove this feature from the
>>>> org.eclipse.rse feature>>>>b.Create an replacement providing the same
>>>> entry
>>>> points from the RSE>>>>System Explorer as the org.eclipse.rse.terminal
>>>> plug-in
>>>> does but use>>>>the newer and maintained TCF Terminals view. The new
>>>>RSE
>>>> terminal>>>>feature will be provided by the  TCF project like the TCF
>>>> based
>>>> file>>>>system and process RSE contributions.>>>> All effort is
>>>>related
>>>> to
>>>> address the many complains about having up>>>>to>>>>3 different
>>>> terminals
>>>> views available in Eclipse. Final goal is to>>>>bundle all terminal
>>>> related effort,
>>>> bugfixing and feature>>>>development, into the superior TCF  Terminals
>>>> view.>>>> Best regards, UweJ>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> tm-dev mailing
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