[stp-dev] IRC record 19apr06

[Oisin Hurley <ohurley@xxxxxxxx>]

[16:58] RobCernich joined the chat room.
[16:58] jrohn joined the chat room.
[17:02] oisin: hi guys
[17:03] DavidBosschaert: Hi Oisin
[17:03] RobCernich: hello
[17:03] jrohn: hi
[17:06] oisin: antony has done a top job on reforming the B2J part of  
the site:  http://www.eclipse.org/stp/b2j/
[17:08] oisin: so whats current....
[17:08] oisin: 1. deployment and connectivity framework
[17:09] oisin: is on my list
[17:10] oisin: anything from anyone online?
[17:10] DavidBosschaert: Any chance of getting the build system  
checked in?
[17:10] oisin: naci is doing a refactor of it to make it look like  
what we discussed last week
[17:10] DavidBosschaert: (committed I mean)
[17:11] oisin: he has to fit this in -- adrian is not online here but  
has been talking to him
[17:11] oisin: then we need to put pieces on the website to host  
build results, etc
[17:12] oisin: I will ping him on it
[17:12] DavidBosschaert: Great
[17:14] jackl joined the chat room.
[17:15] oisin: on the deploy/connect framework, there has been some  
conversations regarding the facilities offered by wtp and dtp and how  
they fit with stp
[17:17] oisin: as I understand it there is concern that the  
connectivity part of the framework is represented by both DTP and WTP  
equally
[17:17] oisin: and the greater concern I guess in some areas is that  
the STP won't use the same connectivity apis as the WTP
[17:18] RobCernich: actually, there is no connectivity within the  
framework
[17:18] RobCernich: the framework leverages the DTP connectivity  
framework
[17:18] RobCernich: (just to clear things up)
[17:18] oisin: ah thanks for the clarification
[17:18] oisin: right. so there is a DTP connectivity framework and a  
WTP connectivity framework
[17:19] oisin: and they are considered by some to address the exact  
same issue in slightly different ways
[17:19] oisin: so the deploy framework is *not* the issue
[17:19] RobCernich: correct, although i'm not familiar enough with  
the WTP framework to comment on it, or similarities or differences  
between the two
[17:20] RobCernich: only so much as it relies on DTP connectivity
[17:20] oisin: so, our goal is to get someone who knows both the WTP  
and DTP connectivity frameworks
[17:20] RobCernich: and there is some concern that it does not  
leverage WTP's connectivity framework as you stated earlier
[17:20] RobCernich: it's on my list
[17:20] oisin: rob does WTP connectivity use DTP connectivity to get  
to data sources?
[17:20] RobCernich:
[17:20] RobCernich: not currently
[17:20] oisin: is there a plan to make this so?
[17:21] RobCernich: as i understand things, they will begin migrating  
to DTP as soon as callisto is released
[17:21] RobCernich: (from RDB)
[17:21] oisin: so WTP will have a dependency on DTP at some point in  
the future
[17:21] RobCernich: as i understand things, yes
[17:21] oisin: i feel a diagram coming on...
[17:22] RobCernich: we should clarify with them, to be sure
[17:22] RobCernich: i have no diagrams
[17:22] oisin: WTP connectivity also connects to things like web  
containers and J2EE servers, right?
[17:23] RobCernich: sorry, missed something from above...
[17:24] RobCernich: the WTP RDB component does not use WTP's server  
framework as far as I know
[17:24] RobCernich: there is a separate connectivity layer for db's  
in wtp
[17:24] oisin: yes that is what I was getting around to
[17:24] oisin: looks like more education is in order for all concerned
[17:24] oisin: i.e. me
[17:25] RobCernich: you're not alone
[17:25] DavidBosschaert: Question is, if WTP will take DTP  
connectivity...
[17:25] DavidBosschaert: will it only use it for the DB, or also for  
its J2EE servers?
[17:25] RobCernich: i can't speak to that
[17:26] RobCernich: we need to talk to somebody in wtp
[17:26] oisin: I'm going to set something up along those lines, Rob.  
Any suggestions for a good way to go about it?
[17:26] oisin: [that's a question for all, not just Rob]
[17:27] RobCernich: i think getting the pmc's together to chat about  
it would be a good place to start
[17:28] oisin: also, Rob:  is there any good documentation you can  
point us to for the deployment framework
[17:28] RobCernich: not as yet
[17:28] oisin: there is some DTP connectivity information at http:// 
www.eclipse.org/datatools/project_connectivity/connectivity_doc/dse/ 
DTP%20Connectivity%20DSE%20Design%200_5.htm
[17:28] RobCernich: i just finished refactoring it for stp
[17:28] pombreda is now known as pombreda|away.
[17:28] RobCernich: i don't know how long it will take legal to sign  
off on it and karl is out of town
[17:29] oisin: arg!
[17:29] oisin:
[17:29] RobCernich: it will come with example implementations for the  
extension points
[17:29] oisin: still, that's cool that the hard work is done and now  
its just down to legal....
[17:29] oisin: can you tell us more about the example implementations?
[17:29] RobCernich: i need to make sure the javadoc is up to date
[17:29] RobCernich: sure
[17:30] pombreda|away: just my 2 cents on wtp/dtp/data tools...
[17:30] RobCernich: ...
[17:30] pombreda|away: afaik data tools migrated from wtp to dtp
[17:30] pombreda|away: and is kinda self standing
[17:31] RobCernich: parts of it, yes
[17:31] pombreda|away: hehe.. soryy for interrupting
[17:31] RobCernich: parts are new as well
[17:31] RobCernich: np
[17:31] pombreda|away: I pack it in my eclispe distro standalone.  
only has a few deps on on wst core stuffs
[17:31] RobCernich: would you like me to go into details (rdb->dtp)
[17:31] pombreda|away: sure
[17:32] pombreda|away: if this is appropriate for here and now
[17:32] RobCernich: the dbdefinition model, sql model, and model  
visualation code were migrated down from wtp
[17:32] pombreda|away: kk
[17:32] RobCernich: the connectivity framework was contributed by sybase
[17:33] RobCernich: as well as the sql editor and sp debugger framework
[17:33] pombreda|away: debugger? nice!
[17:33] • pombreda|away did not check it out yet
[17:34] RobCernich: k
[17:34] RobCernich: sample impl's....
[17:34] RobCernich: there is a logical package extension that works  
with eclipse jardesc files
[17:34] RobCernich: there is a physical package extension that works  
with jar files
[17:35] RobCernich: there is a deploy driver that extends the file  
connection profile example impl in dtp, supporting both package types  
listed above
[17:35] oisin: so that just writes them to a file?
[17:36] RobCernich: sort of
[17:36] oisin:
[17:36] RobCernich: the sample profile is designed to illustrate how  
to implement a connection profile and add content to the data source  
explorer
[17:36] RobCernich: it represents a directory on disk
[17:37] RobCernich: the deploy driver simply copies the package  
(either a jar file in a project or the jar file produced by a  
jardesc) to the directory represented by the profile
[17:37] oisin: ah i see
[17:38] RobCernich: the connection profile example is slightly  
contrived, but is simple to understand
[17:38] RobCernich: the connection created is simply a java.io.File  
object representing a directory
[17:38] RobCernich: in practice, this would be more complex
[17:38] RobCernich: e.g. java.sql.Connection
[17:39] RobCernich: or a JEE management connection
[17:39] RobCernich: or an ESB
[17:39] RobCernich: etc.
[17:39] jackl: thx Rob!
[17:39] oisin: great.
[17:40] RobCernich: the deploy extension would be responsible for  
"doing the right thing" with respect to its targeted server type
[17:40] RobCernich: so, for this contrived case, it simply copies the  
jar file into a directory
[17:41] RobCernich: for an app. server, it would presumably use JEE  
management api's in deploying an ear, war or jar
[17:41] RobCernich: for an ESB, it might use a proprietary api
[17:41] RobCernich: you get the idea
[17:42] oisin: the deploy driver is responsible for conducting the  
conversation that leads to the package being delivered to the target
[17:42] RobCernich: right
[17:42] RobCernich: the target is represented by a dtp connection  
profile
[17:42] RobCernich: the driver is typed to a specific class of profiles
[17:42] RobCernich: and registers with the framework which package  
types it supports
[17:43] RobCernich: there may be more than one driver for a given  
profile type
[17:43] oisin: can you expand a little on 'specific class of profiles'
[17:43] RobCernich: sure
[17:43] RobCernich: a class is really just a type of profile
[17:44] RobCernich: a type of profile represents an connectionProfile  
extension implementation
[17:44] RobCernich: the objects appearing in the data source explorer  
represent instances of connection profiles
[17:45] RobCernich: so, when i say class, i mean the driver supports  
all instances belonging to a type or class of profile
[17:46] oisin: thanks!
[17:46] RobCernich: say you have a Celtix profile extension
[17:46] RobCernich: the user creates instances representing various  
servers within their enterprise
[17:46] RobCernich: the deploy driver is capable of handling  
deployment to each of those instances
[17:47] RobCernich: (stop me if you get it
[17:47] jackl: i reckon I get it
[17:48] RobCernich: hopefully, we can get the code up on the stp site  
within the next week or so
[17:48] RobCernich: i've also got a diagram illustrating how it might  
fit into an stp workflow
[17:49] RobCernich: i'm just waiting for karl to review it before  
posting
[17:49] oisin: that would be great - don't forget it has to go in  
through bugzilla, so put it in as an attachment and then we will move  
it into cvs once all the epl process stuff is satisfied
[17:49] RobCernich: yep
[17:50] jackl: Apologies - I've gotta run.  Thanks all!
[17:50] oisin: the diagram, plus another items like presentations,  
etc would make great starter material for the web site SOAS page
[17:50] oisin: thanks jack
[17:50] jackl left the chat room.
[17:53] oisin: ok have we any other business?  Thanks Rob for all  
your information!
[17:54] RobCernich: np
[17:57] oisin: ok see you all next time.
[17:57] RobCernich: bye
[17:57] RobCernich left the chat room.