[stp-dev] IRC Transcript 01mar06

[Oisin Hurley <ohurley@xxxxxxxx>]

[16:53] jrohn joined the chat room.
[16:56] DavidBosschaert joined the chat room.
[16:57] oisin: hi guys
[16:58] DavidBosschaert: Just us 3 at the mo...
[16:58] alainow joined the chat room.
[16:58] oisin: I have 6 time readers around my desk and they read  
from 1657 to 1703 - very annoying!
[16:58] oisin: hi alain
[16:58] alainow: hi everybody
[16:58] DavidBosschaert: Hi
[16:58] jrohn: Hi
[17:00] AMiguel joined the chat room.
[17:00] oisin: hi antony
[17:01] oisin: I would like to hang on until such a point that we  
have a few more in the channel, if that is ok with you all
[17:01] alainow: ok
[17:01] AMiguel: Hi, ok by me
[17:04] sdaume joined the chat room.
[17:05] RobCernich joined the chat room.
[17:05] RobCernich left the chat room. (Client Quit)
[17:06] oisin: Let's see if Rob returns to us and we shall kick off
[17:06] RobCernich joined the chat room.
[17:06] oisin: hi rob
[17:06] RobCernich: hello
[17:07] oisin: let's get started - I sent out a very terse agenda to  
the stp-dev list earlier today
[17:07] oisin: I'll repeat it here
[17:07] oisin: 1) code review issue
[17:07] oisin: 2) discussion on commit decision process
[17:08] oisin: 3) eclipse con meetup
[17:08] oisin: 4) PMC related updates
[17:08] oisin: 5) feedback to SCA development process
[17:09] oisin: the floor is open for additional items.....
[17:10] oisin: seeing no items...
[17:11] oisin: 1) code review issue --- suggest we have a vote to  
settle this now. proposal is that PMC will neither mandate nor make  
any statement about encouraging code review.
[17:11] oisin: anyone object to vote?
[17:12] DavidBosschaert: Nope, vote is fine by me.
[17:12] RobCernich: works for me
[17:12] sdaume: fine
[17:12] oisin: seeing no objections... let's go:  gimme a  +1 or a -1
[17:12] AMiguel: fine
[17:12] sdaume: +1
[17:12] AMiguel: +1
[17:12] jrohn: +1
[17:13] oisin: +1
[17:13] alainow: +1
[17:13] DavidBosschaert: 0 - would have preferred a statement about  
it, but can live without.
[17:13] oisin: thanks, David
[17:14] oisin: declare a consensus on that topic
[17:14] DavidBosschaert: I will update the commit page accordingly.
[17:14] oisin: thanks you David
[17:15] oisin: 2) discussion on commit decision process
[17:15] oisin: who wants to kick this one off?
[17:15] DavidBosschaert: Are you referring to the contribution  
process of existing code?
[17:16] oisin: no
[17:16] AMiguel: the decision as to whether any code commit should  
happen or not?
[17:16] oisin: yes
[17:16] oisin: consult http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/ 
Eclipse_Standard_TopLevel_Charter_v1.0.php
[17:17] oisin: look for 'retroactive'
[17:17] oisin: this process is plastic and can change depending on  
the lifecycle point of the subproject
[17:17] DavidBosschaert: Ah, yes. Retroactive/Proactive/Three Positive
[17:18] oisin: for example:  initial contributions, use retroactive  
approach, further contributions use three+ approach
[17:19] oisin: rob, stefan:  any guidance w.r.t. how your existing  
projects approach this?
[17:21] oisin: all: any strong feelings on this?
[17:21] RobCernich: we do not have any similar process in DTP  
connectivity
[17:22] oisin: implication that all commits go straight in, rob?
[17:22] RobCernich: right
[17:22] RobCernich: if people have problems we deal with them at that  
time
[17:22] RobCernich: note, most of the code was contributed during  
project formation
[17:23] RobCernich: so, i guess you'd say we've been operating under  
the proactive process
[17:23] RobCernich: permission is granted first, in principle
[17:24] RobCernich: enhancements and code changes are discussed in  
weekly committer meetings
[17:24] RobCernich: so everyone is aware of what is going on and why
[17:24] AMiguel: Three positive would mean every code commit would  
need to be proposed and then voted on?
[17:25] RobCernich: my opinion, as far as vetoing goes, the vetoer  
should specify their concern and what needs to be done to address  
that concern
[17:25] oisin: I think the implication is there Antony
[17:25] sdaume: i think there is essentially a retroactive approach  
in place in TPTP although I do not think that this is explicitly  
stated or mandated
[17:25] RobCernich: of course, the pmc can always take action
[17:26] sdaume: if we absolutely want to support a praticulat  
appraoch I would opt for the retroactive in the initial phase
[17:26] alainow: sorry but I have to leave - bye
[17:26] AMiguel: I would suggest retroactive for both initial  
contributions and future contributions
[17:27] sdaume: it will allow quick contributions in the initial phase
[17:27] alainow left the chat room. ("I don't like you. But Bersirc  
2.2 does. Try it out now. [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source  
IRC ]")
[17:27] oisin: I support retroactive for the initial contribs
[17:28] AMiguel: Anybody against retroactive for inital contrib?
[17:28] DavidBosschaert: Fine with me too.
[17:28] AMiguel: Seems like we have agreement for initial contribs
[17:29] RobCernich: me too
[17:29] AMiguel: What are peoples preferences for subsequent contribs?
[17:29] oisin: (decision) retroactive commit model for initial contribs
[17:29] sdaume: lets be clear though that it will not be possible to  
state that this only applies to initial contribs as long as we have  
not clarfied initial milestones and project phases
[17:30] oisin: good point from stefan
[17:30] AMiguel: Anyone against retroactive for subsequent contribs?
[17:31] sdaume: so we should be suggesting this approach without  
qualifying it and we can obviously change this at a later stage
[17:31] oisin: +1
[17:31] sdaume: if people wish
[17:31] RobCernich: agreed
[17:31] DavidBosschaert: +1
[17:31] jrohn: +1
[17:31] oisin: (decision) retroactive commit model in place until  
such point as it is useful to change it
[17:32] oisin: shall we move on to item 3) ?
[17:33] oisin: 3) eclipse con meetup
[17:34] RobCernich: when and where?
[17:34] sdaume: any suggestions as to whether we will be able during  
the conference or if we have to find a date before or after ?
[17:34] sdaume: should we plan for a full day / half day ?
[17:35] RobCernich: during or one of the evenings would be best for me
[17:35] oisin: are people mostly travelling on friday?
[17:35] sdaume: not sure yet
[17:36] oisin: just looking at the 'con schedule... monday is free  
from 1800 on
[17:36] AMiguel: I know my flight is on friday, not sure what time
[17:36] DavidBosschaert: Our flight is on Friday at 19.30 from SFO.
[17:37] oisin: tuesday is packed full of receptions from 1700 till 2200
[17:37] oisin: wednesday ditto
[17:37] sdaume: if we want to go for an evening meeting I would  
suggest Monday  or Wednesday
[17:37] RobCernich: monday is the night of the members meet and greet
[17:38] oisin: can everyone take a look at their diaries and see how  
they are fixed for Friday *morning*
[17:38] RobCernich: i'm leaving thurs night
[17:39] AMiguel: I'm not sure if my flight is AM or PM on friday
[17:39] DavidBosschaert: Fri morning would work fine for me.
[17:39] jrohn: My flight is early Friday AM.
[17:40] oisin: we are homing in on wednesday evening it looks like
[17:41] oisin: ok I propose we get together at 1730 on wednesday for  
a meeting
[17:42] sdaume: +1
[17:42] oisin: are people comfortable about making a call on this  
now, or will we take it back to the list?
[17:42] RobCernich: works for me
[17:42] RobCernich: +1
[17:42] oisin: +1
[17:42] jrohn: +1
[17:43] AMiguel: +1
[17:43] DavidBosschaert: +1
[17:43] oisin: we have a room request in - I will take action item to  
nail it to this time and place
[17:44] oisin: (decision)  STP F2F @ eclipsecon Wed 22 @ 1730 room tbd
[17:44] oisin: ok 4) PMC updates
[17:44] oisin: this is just around personnel changes
[17:45] oisin: and is FYI since not much is happening officially due  
to eclipsecon frenzy
[17:45] oisin: Christophe has been replaced by Alain
[17:46] oisin: Carl has been  replaced by Oisin
[17:46] oisin: Carl is still on PMC at this moment in time at least  
until official hand over
[17:47] oisin: 5) feedback to SCA development process
[17:48] oisin: during our previous f2f there was concern about basing  
the soa system stuff off the SCA assembly model as it was a moving  
target
[17:48] oisin: SCA assembly spec group has got three persons that  
will feed back input to the spec progress
[17:49] oisin: these are: Oisin Hurley, Ken Tam and Dan Berg
[17:49] oisin: so if there are questions or things bugging you about  
the spec get it to one of these guys
[17:50] oisin: my list is done. anything else?
[17:51] sdaume: we should post the IRC details on the list again
[17:51] sdaume: hopefully this will result in a bigger turnout
[17:51] oisin: ok stefan, I will do that.
[17:52] sdaume: until next week then
[17:52] oisin: David, when you are updating the commit page can you  
put in a sentence regarding the retroactive commit approach that we  
are taking for the time being and link the eclipse charter?
[17:53] RobCernich: bye
[17:53] RobCernich left the chat room.
[17:53] sdaume left the chat room.
[17:53] DavidBosschaert: Yup, no problem.
[17:53] DavidBosschaert: Bye
[17:53] oisin: thanks, see y'all