[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
FW: [smila-dev] RE: FYI :: new feature :: Message Resequencer :: updated requirements section

Hi folks,

no response yet to my last mail and suggestion as posted on the wiki?

Are u guys too busy ATM?

Kind regards
Thomas Menzel @ brox IT-Solutions GmbH

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Menzel 
Sent: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009 14:30
To: 'Smila project developer mailing list'
Subject: RE: [smila-dev] RE: FYI :: new feature :: Message Resequencer :: updated requirements section

Hi all,

1st part:
See 

# 2.1.4 complex processing chains
# 2.1.5 parallel processing branches
# 2.1.6 clustering

On http://wiki.eclipse.org/SMILA/Specifications/ProcessingMessageResequencer


2nd part
http://wiki.eclipse.org/SMILA/Specifications/Processing_Message_Resequencer/Record_Version_Number



Kind regards
Thomas Menzel @ brox IT-Solutions GmbH


> -----Original Message-----
> From: smila-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:smila-dev-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas Menzel
> Sent: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009 11:25
> To: Smila project developer mailing list
> Subject: RE: [smila-dev] RE: FYI :: new feature :: Message Resequencer
> 
> Hi igor,
> 
> > illegal parallel pipelining
> I'm currently updating the wiki and splitting section clustering,
> complex processing chain into two.
> 
> So, bare with me a little longer and then I will post it here when
> done.
> 
> 
> > the other ideas
> Bear with me a little longer, unfortunately I don't have parallel
> workflows in my brain yet... ;)
> But I think I have a good idea.
> 
> Kind regards
> Thomas Menzel @ brox IT-Solutions GmbH
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: smila-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:smila-dev-
> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Igor.Novakovic@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009 11:19
> > To: smila-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: AW: [smila-dev] RE: FYI :: new feature :: Message
> Resequencer
> >
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> >
> > > a) Parallel workflows should be totally legitimate and not illegal.
> > >
> > > Imagine that you want to process a record in two completely
> different
> > ways ending
> > > up in diff indexes. Why should we force it to run in serial fashion
> > if
> > the
> > > customer provides the computing power?
> > There are two "flavors" of this use case:
> > 1) The "illegal" one:
> > The user defines two pipelines that contain several preprocessing
> > pipelets and an indexing service at the end of each pipeline.
> > This case is "illegal" because
> > 	a) We must assume that each preprocessing pipelet updates the
> > record.
> > 	b) Now if those two pipelines are running simultaneously the
> > record would be arbitrary updated by _all_ the pipelets and no
> > predictable result/workflow can be guaranteed.
> >
> > 2) The "legal" one:
> > If the user really wants to store the record in two or more different
> > indexes than all he has to do is to construct the pipeline that does
> > some (complex) preprocessing (by merging the two pipelines) and at
> the
> > end of the new pipeline simply fork it with two index writer
> pipelets.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Also the router explicitly allows several Send tasks in its config,
> > which we would
> > > have to take out.
> > IMO we should take it out. It just causes problems by "seducing" the
> > user to run into this pitfall.
> >
> >
> >
> > > b) following your discussion it seems to me that you slowly
> approach
> > the idea
> > > where you need to register first and unregister at the end, albeit
> > you
> > use the
> > > terms (un)lock and move the functionality into existing components.
> > Yes, the proposed changes would affect already existing components
> like
> > blackboard, connectivity and listener.
> > But there is one important difference between locking and
> registering:
> > By locking the record we also prevent having it changed
> simultaneously
> > in the preprocessing part of the process.
> > By registering operations you would eventually only keep the order of
> > them but still be unable to prevent their parallel execution and
> > therefore arbitrary updates of the record.
> >
> >
> >
> > > To solve this, I have to agree with you that we need a buffer that
> > allows us to
> > > queue and consolidate subsequent PRs as long as the item in
> question
> > is being
> > > processed.
> > Exactly!
> >
> >
> >
> > > New idea:
> > >
> > > An idea that I had (but not thought thru yet) was to have such a
> > buffer in
> > > connectivity myself but I don't want to delay all PRs by a fixed
> > amount of time.
> > > instead I want to have pipelets just before calling the PT to
> signal
> > to
> > > connectivity that processing has completed
> > I like your idea of not having buffer operating in constant
> intervals.
> > I would like only to suggest another implementation:
> > Instead of expanding buffer with callbacks and annoying it with a
> bunch
> > of information that he is not interested in (remember: only a very
> > small
> > portion of records would be changed in short time periods), we could
> > use
> > "record locking concept" so that the buffer proactively query the
> > blackboard if some record is "ready" for reprocessing.
> >
> >
> > > Thought: since we use an MQ anyhow we just could open up another Q
> to
> > send such
> > > messages back.
> > That is in principle the same idea as I've just proposed only that
> the
> > buffer would not query the blackboard but the queue. If this is
> easier
> > to implement - I'll support it!
> >
> >
> > > New idea2:
> > > Take the core of juergen's idea and instead of opening up a buffer,
> > map or a Q in
> > > addition to the recordstore, place additional information
> associated
> > with the
> > > record not as part of it, so that it is not shared.
> > Sorry, but I do not understand what you mean.
> > Can you please rephrase your statement?
> >
> > Regards
> > Igor
> > _______________________________________________
> > smila-dev mailing list
> > smila-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/smila-dev
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.7/2421 - Release Date:
> > 10/08/09 06:39:00
> _______________________________________________
> smila-dev mailing list
> smila-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/smila-dev
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.7/2421 - Release Date:
> 10/08/09 06:39:00