Re: [rt-pmc] Juno Retrospective

[Jesse McConnell <jesse.mcconnell@xxxxxxxxx>]

And you know, it is completely possible that there are efforts
underway that I don't know about that address some or all of my
comments...

If there are then that shows a failing in the organization in
communication which perhaps could be addressed, be it general
organization 'goings on' emails or just getting me on the right
mailing list to read these things

cheers,
jesse

--
jesse mcconnell
jesse.mcconnell@xxxxxxxxx


On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Jesse McConnell
<jesse.mcconnell@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> it is deeper then that with regards to Runtime in general
>
> For almost as long as Jetty has been part of eclipse there has been a
> bit fat '?' over RT on what it represents and why it even exists.
> Jeff McAffer was attempting to address that somewhat with his attempts
> at making a product out of the runtime, where there was some
> compelling story for using the different diverse systems of the
> runtime project together in some way.  Jetty participated in that with
> the WebStarter kits that there was a flurry of activity behind for a
> while there...seems like couple years back at this point.
>
> Personally I see it as a systemic issue within the eclipse foundation
> and its focus on a tricked out editor.  On one hand the eclipse
> foundation is pushing to be a more general entity that accepts open
> source projects that care about IP and want to have their whole
> existence validated and viewed through that spectrum.  This is a nobel
> goal and one of the reasons that jetty came to eclipse.  However on
> the other hand it seems the whole focus of the actual organization is
> to produce this tricked out editor as a core which strategic members
> can build their products on.  Enter the release train...the core
> mechanism that realizes this goal.  Now I am not saying this is a bad
> thing nor that is is not needed....it is just not the primary end goal
> for a project like jetty.
>
> Now, there has been some lip service spent on eclipse (equinox) really
> being a software stack to build applications on, which jetty supports
> and would certainly like to be a part of, but this so bound up in the
> eclipse editor as the 'shining' example that it is hard to separate
> the two.  Jeff was working towards that goal for a while but it was
> obviously a side goal and not a mission of the organization at large,
> which can be evidenced by the effort stalling and basically
> disappearing once he left.
>
> Which brings us back to the RT group...which briefly toyed with the
> idea of producing a software stack that could do much of what
> something like Ruby on Rails could do, only in an osgi fashion and
> leveraging the projects within RT and perhaps a handful of other
> projects within eclipse.  That never really materialized, so the RT
> group now basically motors along on auto-pilot.
>
> <thomas's mail showed up>
>
> I'll paste in and tweak my response to Wayne when he asked me
> privately this question.
>
> - there is no _need_ for jetty to do it, we have no UI components that
> are remotely critical to or of interest to core jetty developers or
> users, we had a wtp component that we worked on some but really never
> got much interest in
>
> - the process is bothersome, it takes time to maintain the files (and
> go re-figure out what we needed to do when the time came), build
> metadata, p2
> repositories, release docuware, etc
>
> - we don't seem to fit the traditional eclipse project structure, ie
> we don't live and breathe around the release of the eclipse platform
> and we get no real benefit from committing resources to making it
> happen, its ultimately just a distraction, when eclipse releases there
> is no evidence that we have participated or had an impact on it
>
> - the end result of our dropping off the release train is only a net
> positive for us, we get the occasional hour or three back while
> equinox and anyone else updates some line in their build to point to a
> p2 repository...problem solved
>
>
> cheers,
> jesse
>
> p.s. this is probably a good time to get this conversation going
> again, we have had it off and on in the RT calls but its been a while
> (though I have missed the last couple by a few minutes :( )
>
>
> --
> jesse mcconnell
> jesse.mcconnell@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Mike Milinkovich
> <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Just a suggestion - feel free to ignore.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that we have a general issue with EclipseRT and the release
>> train. More specifically, I think there is a sense that the release train is
>> of less value to the RT projects. Or that the process is more burdensome for
>> them. Jetty's recent announcement that they're not planning to participate
>> in Kepler is a concrete example of this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps a general conversation about what makes the release train more
>> difficult or of less value to the RT projects would be helpful? What could
>> be done to change that for the RT community?
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course, it's possible that I am completely out to lunch on this
>> perception. It wouldn't be the first time :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: rt-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rt-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Ian Bull
>> Sent: August-22-12 9:49 AM
>> To: Runtime Project PMC mailing list
>> Subject: [rt-pmc] Juno Retrospective
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> The planning council is interested in feedback on the Juno Release.  If you
>> have anything (good or bad) that you would like to add to the Juno
>> Retrospective, please follow up here and I'll pass the comments along to the
>> planning council.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, the Kepler schedule has been finalized. You can see it here [1].
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Kepler/Simultaneous_Release_Plan#Schedule
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> R. Ian Bull | EclipseSource Victoria | +1 250 477 7484
>> http://eclipsesource.com | http://twitter.com/eclipsesource
>>
>>
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