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Re: [rt-pmc] jetty packaging at eclipse-rt: status and questions
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On 4/8/2010 9:03 AM, Jeff McAffer wrote:
But I also agree there is scope for an eclipseRT easy start download
that is a
usable/demonstrable integration of RT components. Maybe not quite a
Petshop
like example... but maybe inspired by that.
Agreed. The challenge is defining the starter kits. Is it a stack of
software? an example application? Is it a basic starter thing or does
it include tons of technology?... Are there several of them? Is it
just server stuff? What about EclipseRT on the client?
One thing I know is that if you try to answer all these questions no
package will ever get built. Right now there is no/zero/nadda entry
point into EclipseRT. There is a huge gap between the theory of
OSGi/EclipseRT and the common developer that wants to get started.
Most developersuse servlets today and do persistence of data. This is
why I think the Jetty/EclipseLink scenerio is so compelling. I would
start with that.
BTW, if we are looking for a demonstration app then perhaps Toast
(http://wiki.eclipse.org/Toast) is a good candidate. It is already at
Eclipse and we have demonstrated quite a number of EclipseRT
technologies (Jetty, RAP, EMF, BIRT, Riena, ECF, p2, Teneo,
EclipseLink, ...) integrated on both the server and the client. It has
snazzy UIs and a whole book of documentation :-)
Sorry but Toast is way too complicated. It is a nice demo and a
wonderful book but it is just too much go people to get started.
The other element is the form. What is this starter kit in actual
fact? A zip you download? A project? Target Platform? and who is the
audience and what workflow are they expecting?
Zip download.
For example, Dennis at the RT BOF was looking to have a simple Equinox
platform that had the framework and p2. Users develop bundles and
features, export them to p2 repos, then start the base platform and
install/run their stuff. This might include installing Jetty,
EclipseLink, ...
A traditional PDE development flow would have developers write bundles
and a .product file and then either launch that from the workspace or
export and run it. They may add further bundles using p2 if the
product is p2 enabled.
A traditional server developer ... (actually I don't know with
authority what they do)
Focus on developers writing servlets and need data persistence. A
simple CRUD application.
The point here is not that any of these is right or wrong. We simply
need clarity in what we are trying to support as that drives the form
and helps set expectations for the consumers.
FWIW, I strongly believe in the CODA approach. We should be stackless
from the ground up. The trick is to make composition of the software
*you* need trivially easy. Think of Yoxos OnDemand
(http://ondemand.yoxos.com/geteclipse/start) for runtime platforms.
Yup, I would like some Equinox, some Jetty, a bit o EclipseLink, ...
In the end all you are doing is picking features (actually IUs) to
compose. This could be in a launch config, .product file, export
wizard, command shell, ... The trick is that these stacks are
individual and just right for you.
CODA is an architecture approach that may come once people understand
how to build applications using bundles. You can't start with CODA for
a common developer. It is just too abstract.