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RE: [platform-update-dev] Investigating some alternative updatemanager

> Dejan Glozic wrote on Friday, September 15, 2006 9:31 AM
> UM is actually quite flexible and you can provide alternative
> implementations of features and sites.
Yep, seen that and considered it. 
All the framework is there to extend if someone wants to do new wads of
wads. :-P
Nice yet that would break compatibility with the default implementation.
Which would defeat the prupose of what we are trying to do.
Since a new site type would require that specific handler to be there to
be understood.
I am just sorry that the default implementation does not allow extra xml
tag without being un-happy.
That would have allowed more room for extensions, if it had ignored tags
it did not know about.
Yet since it is the way it is, we'll work with what we have :-P

-- 
Cheers
Philippe

philippe ombredanne | 1 650 799 0949 | pombredanne at nexb.com 
nexB - Open by Design (tm) - http://www.nexb.com 
http://easyeclipse.org  -  irc://irc.freenode.net/easyeclipse



> -----Original Message-----
> From: platform-update-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:platform-update-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Dejan Glozic
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 9:31 AM
> To: Eclipse Platform Update component developers list.
> Cc: 'Eclipse Platform Update component developers list.'; 
> platform-update-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [platform-update-dev] Investigating some 
> alternative updatemanager
> 
> 
> One idea for people who would like to push Update Manager but 
> don't want to
> end up reimplementing the whole world:
> 
> UM is actually quite flexible and you can provide alternative
> implementations of features and sites. The current 
> implementation where
> site object comes from reading site.xml file and feature 
> object comes from
> feature.xml file is just the default implementation. One can 
> envision a
> site object that serves as a proxy to a webapp or a database. 
> Similarly,
> IFeature methods don't need to parse feature.xml in order to 
> provide the
> information. With a bit of skill and time on your hands, you 
> can create a
> 'featureless' world by creating feature objects using custom feature
> factories that never really see feature artifacts on the file system.
> 
> For example, a custom feature factory can create feature objects from
> information in plugin.xml associated with plug-ins. There is a lot of
> untapped potential with custom site and feature factories, but it does
> require some programming.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dejan Glozic, Ph.D.
> Manager, Eclipse Development 1A
> D1/R0Q/8200/MKM
> IBM Canada Ltd.
> Tel. 905 413-2745  T/L 969-2745
> Fax. 905 413-4850
> 
> 
> 
>                                                               
>              
>              "Philippe                                        
>              
>              Ombredanne"                                      
>              
>              <pombredanne@nexb                                
>           To 
>              .com>                     "'Eclipse Platform 
> Update component 
>              Sent by:                  developers list.'"     
>              
>              platform-update-d         
> <platform-update-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>   
>              ev-bounces@eclips                                
>           cc 
>              e.org                                            
>              
>                                                               
>      Subject 
>                                        RE: 
> [platform-update-dev]           
>              09/15/2006 12:07          Investigating some 
> alternative      
>              PM                        updatemanager          
>              
>                                                               
>              
>                                                               
>              
>              Please respond to                                
>              
>              "Eclipse Platform                                
>              
>              Update component                                 
>              
>              developers list."                                
>              
>              <platform-update-                                
>              
>              dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>                                 
>              
>                                                               
>              
>                                                               
>              
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dejan Glozic wrote on Thursday, September 14, 2006 11:21 PM
> >Typically, views are used as auxiliary
> > artifacts that assist
> > you with the main task. Updates are occasional activity that
> > do not fit
> > into this category (although in the early days of Eclipse 
> we would put
> > everything into perspectives and views, hence the 'Help' 
> perspective,
> > 'Update' perspective etc.). Thank god those days are gone :-).
> Good point. I remember the days of the update perspective 
> with fondness
> >:)
> Though, I am always annoyed with modla dialogs.
> I guess that still a modal dialog to start would be a good way. *sigh*
> Thanks!
> 
> --
> Cheers
> Philippe
> 
> philippe ombredanne | 1 650 799 0949 | pombredanne at nexb.com
> nexB - Open by Design (tm) - http://www.nexb.com
> http://easyeclipse.org  -  irc://irc.freenode.net/easyeclipse
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: platform-update-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:platform-update-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > Dejan Glozic
> > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 11:21 PM
> > To: Eclipse Platform Update component developers list.
> > Cc: 'Eclipse Platform Update component developers list.';
> > platform-update-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [platform-update-dev] Investigating some
> > alternative updatemanager
> >
> >
> > I would respectfully suggest checking the UI Guidelines on
> > various Eclipse
> > UI artifacts.
> >Typically, views are used as auxiliary
> > artifacts that assist
> > you with the main task. Updates are occasional activity that
> > do not fit
> > into this category (although in the early days of Eclipse 
> we would put
> > everything into perspectives and views, hence the 'Help' 
> perspective,
> > 'Update' perspective etc.). Thank god those days are gone :-).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dejan Glozic, Ph.D.
> > Manager, Eclipse Development 1A
> > D1/R0Q/8200/MKM
> > IBM Canada Ltd.
> > Tel. 905 413-2745  T/L 969-2745
> > Fax. 905 413-4850
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >              "Philippe
> >
> >              Ombredanne"
> >
> >              <pombredanne@gmai
> >           To
> >              l.com>                    "'Eclipse Platform
> > Update component
> >              Sent by:                  developers list.'"
> >
> >              platform-update-d
> > <platform-update-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >              ev-bounces@eclips
> >           cc
> >              e.org
> >
> >
> >      Subject
> >                                        RE:
> > [platform-update-dev]
> >              09/15/2006 02:06          Investigating some
> > alternative
> >              AM                        updatemanager
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >              Please respond to
> >
> >              "Eclipse Platform
> >
> >              Update component
> >
> >              developers list."
> >
> >              <platform-update-
> >
> >              dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed:
> > Can I quote that little snippet from your email on the wiki page?
> > That is quite representative of a typical horror end user story.
> > Now I am not sure we would be able to address that.
> > Things like addressing issues with the launcher, the
> > startup.jar and the
> > config.ini that you know well seesm to be in the plan in 
> 3.3 at least.
> > I do not intend to solve that for now.
> >
> > > IMHO the biggest problem with the update manager today is it
> > > can't update everything. Just the other day I was trying to
> > > help a co-worker who reported that a plug-in I wrote wasn't
> > > working. It turned out she was running Eclipse 3.0 and the
> > > plug-in required 3.1 or 3.2. She had no idea she was running
> > > a back-level version of Eclipse. "I've always run the update
> > > manager", she said, "and I assumed it would update me". I
> > > told her she had to install a whole new version of Eclipse so
> > > she did, and of course she unpacked it right on top of the
> > > old version before I could stop her. So I had her redo it in
> > > a clean directory, but then she lost all the add-ins she had
> > > collected (like CodePro) and had to reinstall those. This
> > > kind of thing happens all the time. I know exactly why it
> > > works this way but it's very user un-friendly.
> >
> > You also said:
> > > I wish I could help solve these problems with a code
> > > contribution but all I have time for right now is to complain
> > > about it and point to auto-updating programs like Firefox
> > > that seem to have solved it already.
> > We are trying to take the MacOS software update and the 
> firefox theme
> > and extensions updates as a model for a simple UI.
> > Hopefully something to make you happy... yet keep expectations low.
> >
> > A funny discussion we had was what should the UI look like?
> > - a dialog?
> > - a wizard?
> > - a view?
> > It looks like everyone I asked gave a different opinion.
> > So the only we could agree on was that would be an SWT Composite ;-)
> > Yet that compsite may be available either as a view or as a dialog.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > --
> > Cheers
> > Philippe
> >
> > philippe ombredanne | 1 650 799 0949 | pombredanne at nexb.com
> > nexB - Open by Design (tm) - http://www.nexb.com
> > http://easyeclipse.org  -  irc://irc.freenode.net/easyeclipse
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: platform-update-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:platform-update-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > > Ed Burnette
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 8:11 AM
> > > To: Eclipse Platform Update component developers list.
> > > Subject: RE: [platform-update-dev] Investigating some
> > > alternative updatemanager
> > >
> > >
> > > IMHO the biggest problem with the update manager today is it
> > > can't update everything. Just the other day I was trying to
> > > help a co-worker who reported that a plug-in I wrote wasn't
> > > working. It turned out she was running Eclipse 3.0 and the
> > > plug-in required 3.1 or 3.2. She had no idea she was running
> > > a back-level version of Eclipse. "I've always run the update
> > > manager", she said, "and I assumed it would update me". I
> > > told her she had to install a whole new version of Eclipse so
> > > she did, and of course she unpacked it right on top of the
> > > old version before I could stop her. So I had her redo it in
> > > a clean directory, but then she lost all the add-ins she had
> > > collected (like CodePro) and had to reinstall those. This
> > > kind of thing happens all the time. I know exactly why it
> > > works this way but it's very user un-friendly.
> > >
> > > The second biggest problem with the update manager today is
> > > it doesn't deal with different versions of plug-ins that are
> > > targetted to different versions of Eclipse. Case in point. We
> > > have an internal update site for plug-ins that employees have
> > > written. Recently someone wanted to upgrade an older plug-in
> > > to take advantage of a new feature in Eclipse 3.2. However
> > > they couldn't because users are running various versions of
> > > the Eclipse SDK including 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, or 3.3. And there's
> > > also the case of new Eclipse versions breaking old plug-ins
> > > that rely on internals (you know you write them). The manual
> > > work-around of having a different URL for each version of the
> > > SDK (updates/30, updates/31, etc.) is a pain to maintain and
> > > get everyone to use it consistently and doesn't scale. There
> > > should be a better way.
> > >
> > > I wish I could help solve these problems with a code
> > > contribution but all I have time for right now is to complain
> > > about it and point to auto-updating programs like Firefox
> > > that seem to have solved it already. So if these kinds of
> > > issues can be addressed with "Update manager - TNG", that
> > > would be great.
> > >
> > > --Ed
> > > www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/ebgwt/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > platform-update-dev mailing list
> > > platform-update-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-update-dev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > platform-update-dev mailing list
> > platform-update-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-update-dev
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > platform-update-dev mailing list
> > platform-update-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-update-dev
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
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