| Re: [platform-ui-dev] CDT feedback from students this semester |
Hi Leo,Regarding vertical tab, there is an old bug about it (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=58945 ) and the Eclipse Foundation just opened a FEEP item for it (https://projects.eclipse.org/development_effort/ctabfolder- ).should-support-multi-rows-and- vertical-style-options Cheers,MikaelLe 22 déc. 2016 à 21:54, Leo Ufimtsev <Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx> a écrit :<Selection_345.png>Some thoughts...
1) Inline variables:Intelliji shows variable content in-line. I.e, when a value is changed, the value is displayed in the text-editing part next to the variable.This saves up a lot of space.2) Use vertical tabs instead of icons for minimized panels.During debug, things like the outline (and other views) is often not needed. It'd be good for it to be tucked away. But the current 'minimize' minimizes it into a single icon, which is hard to click. Minimizing it into a vertical tab I think would be better than a small icon. (More click space).
Also make the outline pop-out as you hover your mouse over it as oppose to having to click on it. (This would work better with larger vertical tabs though as oppose to icons).______________________________On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 9:10 PM, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> - Those who used Eclipse CDT would occasionally use text editors (eg Atom) for simple little hacks like editing makefiles.
Any idea why? Maybe because there was no default editor and it opened the OS editor?
I think most of us do that. I can’t just go ‘eclipse Makefile’ from the command line to quickly bring up the IDE to edit that file, like I do with Emacs, and now VS.Code these days, and as these students were doing with Atom.
I used to think this was an advanced workflow, but I hear more and more that students are learning how to program without IDEs. And that makes sense since you really want them to understand the who platform they are working with so they can debug their way out of trouble. A great IDE would provide a nice transition from editor to full blow IDE workflows.
Dani
From: Leo Ufimtsev <lufimtse@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: CDT DEV <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Eclipse Platform UI component developers list." <platform-ui-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 15.12.2016 22:32
Subject: [platform-ui-dev] CDT feedback from students this semester
Sent by: platform-ui-dev-bounces@eclipse.org
Hello,
As per request in CDT discussion:
I've had some feedback from students who used Eclipse CDT this semester.
Here is a compiled summary based on around 10 replies that I got back from survey. (Class of 150 students).
Context:
- A 2nd year university (University of Toronto, Canada) course on System programming in C.
- Eclipse CDT was used as their main IDE this semester (for the first time).
- I held a guest lecture on how to setup and use Eclipse CDT at the beginning of the semester and helped some students get going with it.
Lecture slides:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ztUv_Dgt6tFhP9- k4MuKJXXbk1ft-6Gzn_IXrZ8XsX4/ edit?usp=sharing
- Eclipse was used for 3 C based assignments.
- I had University IT staff pre-install the Eclipse CDT spin on university computers. (Ubuntu 14.04)
- Some students had familiarity with Eclipse JDT.
Please note: Student's often complain that applications are too complicated because they have very limited time to learn a tool.
This doesn't necessarily reflect the difficulty of learning Eclipse in the industry.
Usage:
- 7/10 used Eclipse.
- One used CLion. The reason was that he learned to use Intellij a year ago and didn't feel like migrating to Eclipse because he didn't knew it very well.
- Two used only a text editor (Atom).
- Those who used Eclipse CDT would occasionally use text editors (eg Atom) for simple little hacks like editing makefiles.
- It was rare for students to do all their work in Eclipse (although possible). Many resorted to terminal for SVN, compiling or other external tools as it was too complex for them to figure out how to do it in Eclipse. (Although info provided in the slides).
Problems/Complaints:
- Dark theme was not functioning that well (for older Eclipse Neon release). (This is not CDT specific, but CDT users liked to use Dark theme).
- Debug perspective feels cluttered. Too many windows and each one is too small. (Even on 1900x screens). (Not CDT specific, but debugging was used with CDT).
- Valgrind was hard to install for them. Some didn't see what functionality the visual valgrind had that the command line version didn't. (But Valgrind extensively).
Most commonly used features:
- Visual debugging (Main reason people setup Eclipse).
- Code navigation
- Keyword highlighting
- Refactoring (variable name/function names), Autocomplete.
- Version Control / Local history.
Also mentioned:
- Students wanted to have a Terminal build into Eclipse.
- They were not aware of TM Terminal's existence (which provides this functionality).
- Students wished for a 'simplified' version of Eclipse. Something similar to PyCharm's "Edu" version which would have a limited set of features just enough for learning a new programming language.
---
Leo Ufimtsev
Software Engineer, Eclipse team.
Toronto, Canada
Red Hat, Inc.
Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx| http://DeveloperBlog.RedHat.com/
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