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Re: [platform-ui-dev] Generify JFace Databinding

+1 for changing the rule, if it exists. I will support Alex in his PMC proposal

Am 22.04.2016 8:06 vorm. schrieb "Aleksandar Kurtakov" <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>:
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dirk Fauth" <dirk.fauth@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Eclipse Platform UI component developers list." <platform-ui-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, 22 April, 2016 7:04:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [platform-ui-dev] Generify JFace Databinding
>
>
>
> I wasn't aware of that policy and I didn't suggest anything. I only said that
> it feels like it is not finished from a users perspective.
>
> I also think that smaller patches would increase the number of contributions,
> because you are able to evolve continuously. And for the development time
> this should be ok. IMHO the policy should be that it needs to be finished in
> some sort of sprint. But honestly not with a single commit as nobody wants
> to review that aswell.

May I ask where is this rule coming from? I'm not aware of it and personally believe this limitation should be modified and removed entirely or at least for the first half of development(up to M4?) to allow faster progress and eventually finished for the release. If it's written somewhere please point me to it and we will discuss it at some of the next PMC meetings.

Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse team

> Am 22.04.2016 02:28 schrieb "Stefan Xenos" < sxenos@xxxxxxxxxx >:
>
>
>
> Exactly. Databinding consists of many plugin bundles.
>
> Currently we have a rule that each plugin needs to be generified atomically.
> This means all the work needs to be done in one giant sprint by a single
> contributor, which creates an enormous workload for whoever does it. You
> need a volunteer willing to spend about a week of full-time work in order to
> convert one of these plugins -- and they need to do it all in one go or
> their giant change won't merge.
>
> As it is, the workload is almost impossible. That's why nobody did it for
> about 10 years... but in 4.6 we managed to get it done for several
> databinding plugins.
>
> If we want the work done faster, sprigogin's suggestion would be the way to
> go. Making the atomic unit for generification smaller would mean that
> someone could write a useful patch over a weekend rather than needing to do
> it as their day job for a week. That would mean more warnings in the
> short-term but also more people willing to help out.
>
> You seem to be suggesting that you want to make the atomic unit for
> generification even larger than a single plugin. If we were to adopt that
> policy, the consequence would be that nobody will ever do the work. The
> plugins would never get generified. If it took 10 years to find somebody to
> do the work to convert 3 of the plugins, how long do you think it would take
> to find someone to convert - say - 10 of them in one go?
>
> - Stefan
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:00 PM Sergey Prigogin < eclipse.sprigogin@xxxxxxxxx
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> There is no such thing as databinding bundle. Databinding is a framework,
> different parts of which are implemented by separate plugins. According to
> official Eclipse policy minimal generification unit is a plugin. I
> personally think that generification would go faster if it were allowed to
> proceed on file-by-file basis, how it was successfully done for CDT a while
> ago.
>
> -sergey
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Dirk Fauth < dirk.fauth@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I did a quick check of the sources. The basic interfaces in databinding are
> generified. The extending interfaces not, e.g. IValueProperty and
> IBeanValueProperty. Therefore the usage of BeanProperties or
> WidgetProperties will lead to warnings. They can only be solved with <?>.
>
> Just for my understanding. If the subclassing interfaces of a generic
> interface are not generified, why do you think the generification of the
> databinding bundle is finished? How should the code that uses for example
> WidgetProperties look like to not produce warnings.
>
> Maybe my question sounds stupid, but I don't get it. And I suppose a lot of
> users will come up with the same questions if this stays this way.
> Am 21.04.2016 21:43 schrieb "Stefan Xenos" < sxenos@xxxxxxxxxx >:
>
>
>
> > there are still Gerrit reviews pending with comments that you Stefan marked
> > as "I need to think about the correct solution".
>
> Yes. There are some outstanding code reviews that would add generification to
> some additional plugins, but no part of the generification work has been
> committed to those plugins yet... and to be honest, most of those gerrit
> reviews will probably go in verbatim -- they just need more test coverage
> and more time spent under review.
>
> The plugins that are finished are commited. The ones that are still in
> progress are in gerrit... and there are several where the work hasn't
> started yet. There is no plugin that is partially generified.
>
> > And always adding warning filters is not a solution.
>
> Unless someone created a single commit that were to generify the entirety of
> the Eclipse platform, there will be plugins where some of its dependencies
> have been generified and others haven't. Nobody will ever create such a
> giant commit. In the meantime you need warning filters.
>
> > I haven't looked into the details. What is missing and were do you need
> > support?
>
> Pick a plugin that hasn't been generified yet and start adding the generics.
> :-) Or pick one that I've already started and help with the code review or
> with writing tests and examples.
>
> - Stefan
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:32 PM Dirk Fauth < dirk.fauth@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm always the last that wants to rollback things again.
> Better is to finish things. AFAIK there are still Gerrit reviews pending
> with comments that you Stefan marked as "I need to think about the correct
> solution". I am not aware of the current state, but the way it is right now
> it will cause a lot of customer complaints regarding the generification of
> data binding. And always adding warning filters is not a solution.
>
> I haven't looked into the details. What is missing and were do you need
> support?
> Am 21.04.2016 21:16 schrieb "Lars Vogel" < lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx >:
>
>
> Hi Dirk, cc Stefan
>
> one thing to consider here is that the generification of the existing
> plug-ins was a tremendous effort for Stefan and other involved
> committers. A rollback will most likely prevent us from finishing the
> work in 4.7.
>
> If the works gets done in 4.7, a customer can add the generified
> versions to his target platform, even if he used 4.6.
>
> Best regards, Lars
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Dirk Fauth < dirk.fauth@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Today I checked out my e4 migration tutorial sources with the latest Neon
> > integration build. I got lots of warnings related to generics. That's OK
> > because of generifying databinding, and so I started to add generics to my
> > databinding code.
> >
> > To make it short, I was not able to get rid of all warnings. It looks like
> > the job is only done half the way.
> >
> > I don't want to blame anybody, but we can not leave it that way. It either
> > needs to be finished or reverted for Neon and taken up afterwards again.
> >
> > Greez,
> > Dirk
> >
> >
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>
>
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