Michael,
Your position is perfectly understandable,
though I would never subscribe to it. As you say, indeed this is an approach “for
the masses” L
When I mentioned blogs, I meant Eclipse
as a whole… not the CVS plugin in particular.
We have several programmers here who have
never worked in a decent IDE and are only starting with Java. Indeed they are
more then happy with Eclipse.
You might guess I am not in that camp. For
a full disclosure: I am an Intellij IDEA addict J
Anyway, this is irrelevant to our
discussion.
I don’t have links as I wasn’t
searching for them specifically, they were a by-product of google search on “Eclipse
CVS folders deleted refresh” and combinations of those…
If you are interested try googling “to
make Eclipse happy” as a phrase with quotes included…
Thank you for your help.
Best regards,
Eduard Letifov
Analyst/Programmer
Information Services
Metservice
30 Salamanca Road,
Kelburn
Wellington
PO Box 722
Wellington
+64 4 470 0842
http://www.metservice.com
From:
platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Valenta
Sent: Tuesday, 21 February 2006
10:23 a.m.
To: Generic team support framework
Subject: RE: [platform-team-dev]
Marker CVS directories get deletedon "Refresh" in Eclipse
Ed,
So
your complaint is that Eclipse CVS does not behave like a standard CVS client.
For better or worse, this was our intent all along. We wanted to create a CVS
client that was easy to use without knowing all the gory details of CVS. Just
as I am sure there are many blogs that lament this (as you point out) , I have
also seen many blogs, posts etc, that are quite happy with the way the Eclipse
CVS client works. I have even seen posts that go as far as to claim that the
only reason that they use Eclipse is for the CVS support.
Having
said that, the Eclipse CVS client is highly user centric and what you are
trying to do is more aimed at an automated build process. There is bound to be
a tradeoff between usability from the users standpoint and toolability (for
lake of a better term). However, as you say, you were able to "fix"
the problem within a day of receiving my explanation of some potential
solutions. This seems to me to be an acceptable tradeoff between having a CVS
client for the masses and one that supports other tooling.
As
for you suggestion to prompt, we tried that way back when but unfortunately, it
was more disruptive then helpful and there were a few problem cases where
prompting was not possible. Just to put this in perspective, the CVS client has
behaved this way for close to 5 years and there have only been a handful of
bugs related to the purging of orphaned CVS folders. We take such bugs very
seriously and work with the reporters to either find work arounds (as with your
case) or modify the CVS client as appropriate to accomodate the reported
scenarios.
Michael
P.S.
If you could provide pointers to some of the blogs/posts you mentioned, I would
be interested in reading about the problems people are having and of compiling
a list of these types of issues and workarounds for the CVS FAQ.
|
"Ed Letifov" <ed.letifov@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent
by: platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/20/2006 03:37 PM
|
Please
respond to
Generic team support framework
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To
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"Generic team support framework"
<platform-team-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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cc
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Subject
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RE: [platform-team-dev] Marker CVS
directories get deleted on "Refresh"
in Eclipse
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Frankly I don’t understand who exactly the
last email was addressed to and what exactly did it imply L
I have “fixed” the build system to fake a CVS
directory and it seems to please Eclipse.
However I still believe the behaviour is wrong. In fact in my
view on the net there are too many blogs/articles/etc. describing ways of
working around Eclipse’s limitations…
Dare I say that other IDEs don’t behave in such a
bizarre way?
Consider this: if I was working without an IDE and was
“smart” enough to copy a checked out source tree (rather then
exported) with all CVS directories included who would suffer (and ultimately
learn never to d it again)? And the opposite (my situation) when I do
everything proper from CVS point of view….
So, why do you fix someone’s wrong behaviour by
breaking proper one?
I mean it would be fine for an IDE to catch me at doing this
and hang a warning dialog and offer to cleanup these directories (and
“never warn again” option), but actually go as far as silently
messing up my file system seems to be conceptually wrong…
Best regards,
Eduard Letifov
Analyst/Programmer
Information Services
Metservice
30 Salamanca Road,
Kelburn
Wellington
PO Box 722
Wellington
+64 4 470 0842
http://www.metservice.com
From:
platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Wilson
Sent: Tuesday, 21 February 2006 2:55 a.m.
To: Generic team support framework
Subject: Re: [platform-team-dev] Marker CVS directories get
deletedon "Refresh" in Eclipse
You do realize that *you* are the reason that people think our CVS support is
so good.
McQ.
|
Michael
Valenta/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA
Sent by: platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/19/06 19:52
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Please
respond to
Generic team support framework
|
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To
|
Generic team support framework
<platform-team-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
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cc
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Subject
|
Re: [platform-team-dev] Marker CVS
directories get deleted on "Refresh"
in Eclipse
|
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Ed,
There are several reasons why orphaned CVS folders are pruned. The main reason
is that, if the user copies or moves shared content, they expect the CVS
folders to be purged (there are other reasons as well but they are more
complex). It becomes difficult to differentiate the case where the user copied
or moved content (in which case the CVS folders should be purged) from the case
where the user checked out out additional content from the repository and wants
the CVS folders to remain.
Is the project that contains the sub-modules shared with CVS through Eclipse.
It should be the case that orphaned CVS folders are only pruned in projects
that are shared with CVS. One option would be to disconnect the project from
CVS and see if that helps. I can't guarantee that it will since this is not
something we test for. If CVS folders are pruned from an unshared project, this
is definitely a bug. Please log a bug report if this is the case.
If you want to keep the project shared with CVS, there are a couple of ways to
prevent the CVS folders from being purged from the sub-modules.
1) Is the content all from the same repository? If so, the best way to deal
with this would be to define one or more modules in the CVSROOT/modules file
that would allow you to checkout everything at once as a project shared from
the root. This would ensure that the sub-modules are not orphaned and would
have the added benefit that you could perform CVS operations on the sub-modules
from within Eclipse.
2) If it is not possible to define an appropriate module but the content is
from the same repository, you can use the Eclipse CVS Checkout wizard to
specifiy that you want to checkout content into an existing project. This will
create the necessary CVS folders in the parent folders and project to enable
CVS operation on the sub-modules. This would not be possible if you have an
automated process for checking out the sub-modules. However, if this is the
case, you could modify your checkout process to create the required CVS folders
and content. This would require that your checkout process create the
appropriate files in the CVS folders (just like the CVS Checkout wizard does).
3) If neither of the above two approaches are appropriate, another option would
be to add the sub-modules as links (i.e. check them each out as projects and
then create the submodules in your build project as Eclipse links. The CVS
plugin totally ignores the conteht in links.
If none of these work for you, it may be best to log a bug report about this.
Michael
|
"Ed Letifov" <ed.letifov@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/19/2006 03:49 PM
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Please
respond to
Generic team support framework
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To
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<platform-team-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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cc
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Subject
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[platform-team-dev] Marker CVS directories
get deleted on "Refresh" in Eclipse
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Hello,
After looking for quite long on the Eclipse site I’ve only found this
list to communicate to “team” developers…
I am trying to make Eclipse usable with a build system we have or vice versa if
you wish J
The build system is based on Ant and CVS.
Once you checkout the top level module, the build system checks out the
sub-modules from separate CVS modules into the directory structure described
below.
The “modules” sub-directory does not contain CVS directories.
Sub-modules do. Now here is the problem – the moment I press refresh
project in Eclipse, all CVS directories in the sub-modules get deleted…
>From my view this should not be so. These are my directories; Eclipse
didn’t have to do anything with them, why does it delete them?
+Top-Level CVS module
+CVS
+Lib
+Modules
+sub-module1
+CVS
+sub-module2
+CVS
+Src
Build.xml
Can anyone please provide a hint how to disable this behaviour?
Best regards,
Eduard Letifov
Analyst/Programmer
Information Services
Metservice
30 Salamanca Road,
Kelburn
Wellington
PO Box 722
Wellington
+64 4 470 0842
http://www.metservice.com
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