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RE: [platform-swt-dev] SWT_AWT and Accessibility

One small update.. This only works when using a SUN JVM. Using an IBM 1.5
jvm swing remains unresponsive.

Thanks,
Jamie M. Guillemette
IT Solutions Developer
TD Enterprise Technology Solutions
275 Dundas Street, 11th Floor, London
(519) 663-1952



                                                                           
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                                       RE: [platform-swt-dev] SWT_AWT and  
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Well.. i just made an interesting discovery...

if you start jaws FIRST then your java app.. it does appear to pick up the
assistive text in both swing and swt panels.

If you start it AFTER your app. Then it will only see swt assistive text.

James Corbett - you may have more experience with this than anyone .. have
you seen this behavor before?



Thanks,
Jamie M. Guillemette
IT Solutions Developer
TD Enterprise Technology Solutions
275 Dundas Street, 11th Floor, London
(519) 663-1952



                                                                           
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                                 Accessibility                             
                                                                           
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Greetings:

As a Blind developer myself using both Jaws and SWT I've encountered
similar issues while attempting to incorporate SWING and SWT into the same
project... my own take on this come down purely on the side of the Access
Bridge and its inherent flakyness from version to version as well as
version to version of JFW.

Could you be more specific in your issue, perhaps I've already crossed the
same ground.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: platform-swt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
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Sent: May 11, 2007 9:40 AM
To: Eclipse Platform SWT component developers list.
Cc: Eclipse Platform SWT component developers list.;
platform-swt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [platform-swt-dev] SWT_AWT and Accessibility


Hi Richard,

Got a quick question fory you.  Given the current issue with swing embedded
in an eclipse application. Is it safe to assume that we would encounter the
same problem using IBM's HOD (host on demand) embedded within an eclipse
app. HOD using a swing graphics panel to present its UI.





Thanks,
Jamie M. Guillemette
IT Solutions Developer
TD Enterprise Technology Solutions
275 Dundas Street, 11th Floor, London
(519) 663-1952




             Richard
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                                 Accessibility

             05/10/2007
             02:26 PM


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Jaime should have a test case. I spoke with Freedom's CTO, Glen Gordon, and
if you can isolate all the swing pieces to a black hole (isolated area) you
might get that to work with the access bridge. Once you start mixing swing
components with SWT components then you get into a lot of problems with not
being able to reconstruct the window hierarchy in your screen reader which
leads to lots of other problems.

What I will say as this is not a "JAWS supported" situation so it may work
and it may not.

I spoke with Mike Cooper, in the Expeditor team, on the subject this
morning and he is going to install the access bridge and try things out
with JAWS. Beyond that someone would need to work with Sun to try and get
an access bridge replacement which uses IAccessible2. IAccessible2 will
give you access to many things, including rich text, which would be lost
when Swing uses Java2D to render it.

Rich



Rich Schwerdtfeger
Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
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                                               Re: [platform-swt-dev]
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It still makes sense to have a test case and bug report to track this issue
and confirm that it does not work.


 Richard Schwerdtfeger
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              rg>                         and Accessibility



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Swing applications, currently, interoperate with assistive technologies
through the Java Acces Bridge. Assistive technologies access Swing
applications through a special Java access bridge dll provided by Sun. This
is not how assistive technologies access Eclipse applications. Eclipse
applications interoperate with assistive technologies, on Windows, using
MSAA, offscreen modeling (screen scraping), and propietary APIs used by
ActiveX plug-ins. Even if you installed the bridge, this would be
problematic for ATs as they would not be able to handle the mix between the
access bridge dll and MSAA.

We have developed an accessibility API extension to MSAA, called
IAccessible2 which when combined with MSAA will give you the same level of
rich interoperability as Java. We hope to implement support for it in
Eclipse along with Linux accessibility support. Sun would also need to do a
mapping from the Java Accessibility API ( referred to by Jamie) and
MSAA/IAccessible2. This would provide the consistent framework you desire.
Sun has not made that investment at this time. IAccessible2 should be fully
supported by JAWS and Window-Eyes in their next releases.

So, it is recommended that Swing not be used in Eclipse applications if you
would like them to be accessible. If possible, we recommend using an
existing SWT control.

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger
Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
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                                                 Re: [platform-swt-dev]
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Can you confirm that it is working properly running a small Swing only
example? If so, please create a bug report with a stand alone snippet.

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Hi All,

Im trying to find out if the SWT_AWT bridge allows accessibility data to
flow from Swing components back to SWT and out to Accessibility
applications.

I have an eclipse application that uses swing for many views. The SWT_AWT
bridge is used to allow the swing panel to be embedded in the views.

Our client relies on Jaws a screen reader application.

In Swing we would call the method getAcessibleContext().setName()  or
setDescription()  on any swing component. This provides the details the
screen reader needs
to have to work properly.

So far my intial attempts at making this work within our eclipse plugin
have failed. Our SWT components / frames work perfectly.

Does anyone know :

a) is accessiblity supported in swing panels via SWT_AWT?

b) if not is there a best practice work around?



Thanks,
Jamie M. Guillemette
IT Solutions Developer
TD Enterprise Technology Solutions
275 Dundas Street, 11th Floor, London
(519) 663-1952


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