[
Date Prev][
Date Next][
Thread Prev][
Thread Next][
Date Index][
Thread Index]
[
List Home]
|
RE: RE: [platform-swt-dev] org.eclipse.swt.SWT
|
Agreed.
I was just asking the resons for your design decisions as they seemed a bit
unconventional. *asking* not *demanding*. The reason I ask is that I also
make a living developing s/w in Java, and good design concepts would
definitely help me. I am *not* saying that you are right or wrong. Its not
upto me to judge. Only time can tell.
Answers like 'Its the result of 15 year design experience' does not help my
purpose. As I do not get the *reason* behind the decisions but only the
fact that you guys have really worked hard.
Of course, if you do not want to reply to me, I have no objections. I would
only assume that the decision was made by someone above and many people do
not have any idea. As is the case with my question that started this "war"
(Its still un-replied).
Again, no offence meant.
Regards
Indukumar
Mike_Wilson@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent by: To: platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
platform-swt-dev-admin@ cc:
eclipse.org Subject: RE: RE: [platform-swt-dev]
org.eclipse.swt.SWT
02/28/2003 05:02 PM
Please respond to
platform-swt-dev
*sigh*. I should have thought that the amount of energy this topic has
received would have indicated that we *are* listening.
In any case, the point I was trying to make was that, you are *absolutely*
welcome to make comments about the design of SWT, and the SWT team (which
I'm actually no longer an active member of) definately does listen to them,
BUT *they* are the ones who are responsible for making SWT go, and the ones
who have made that commitment to the work ultimately have to be ones who
decide what the solution looks like.
McQ.
vellapillli_h.indukumar@systo
r.com To:
Sent by: platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
platform-swt-dev-admin@eclips cc:
e.org Subject: RE: RE:
[platform-swt-dev] org.eclipse.swt.SWT
02/28/03 04:17 AM
Please respond to
platform-swt-dev
>Having said that, the truth of the matter is that (as you have already
discovered) there are strong feelings about this >issue. The implication is
that, if you want to see the API changed, then you are going to have to
earn a place as a >respected SWT committer and work within the system to
see the change happen.
Thats an interesting argument. Do I have to earn respect with your team
first, then propose suggestions? Does that mean whatever suggestions that I
give (whether its right or wrong doesn't matter) will be taken only after I
earn respect? What about bug reports, do I have to earn respect for that
also?
I agree that its not an ideal world. There may be differences of opinion
regarding the 'right' way to design. Personally I do not mind small
deviations from 'pure' object oriented goals. But what I do mind is if
people stop listening. If you have a good idea, it should be made open for
discussion. The attitude that 'I am right whatever you say' is what more
injurious to the project than any of microsoft/sun's marketing tactics.
Criticisms are part of life. Only way you can effectively deal with them is
to provide facts and figures supporting your arguments. If you have good
arguments against some usage of setters-getters, provide them. I agree that
you have 15 years of experience. Then you also must have some solid facts,
case-studies to back your design decisions. Show them. Write a white paper.
Give us the link. It will be benifitial for us. We will get to learn new
things. But if you just say 'Its right because we have 15 years experience'
without furnishing supporting facts, we will learn only that you need a
change in attitude.
<No offence meant>
Indukumar
Mike_Wilson@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent by: To:
platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
platform-swt-dev-admin@ cc:
eclipse.org Subject: RE: RE:
[platform-swt-dev]
org.eclipse.swt.SWT
02/27/2003 09:32 PM
Please respond to
platform-swt-dev
Joe, please understand "acepted OO design methodology" would only apply if
this was an effort to build a Java GUI on an idealized "OO window system".
It is not. As David Whiteman alluded in a previous email, most of the SWT
team has had somewhere around 15 years of experience solving the particular
problem of building OO interfaces to platform window systems. Their design
decisions are based on a very strong history of knowing what
_actually_works_.
Having said that, the truth of the matter is that (as you have already
discovered) there are strong feelings about this issue. The implication is
that, if you want to see the API changed, then you are going to have to
earn a place as a respected SWT committer and work within the system to see
the change happen.
McQ.
"Joe Pluta"
<joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To:
Sent by: <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
platform-swt-dev-admin@eclips cc:
e.org Subject: RE: RE:
[platform-swt-dev] org.eclipse.swt.SWT
02/27/03 02:39 PM
Please respond to
platform-swt-dev
> From: Veronika_Irvine@xxxxxxxxxx
>
> You disagree with our philosophy and that is fine.
I think (in my opinion) your design philosophy differs with accepted OO
design, which confuses me. This is not my personal philosophy, it's just
what I've read in every OO design methodology text I've ever seen. I'd be
interested to see something that suggests that public attributes are a good
thing.
> However, if you
> understand the philosophy you will see that it is actually applied
> meticulously within SWT.
When does setText in a label take effect? As far as I can tell, not until
you do a call to layout. Or am I mistaken in this?
> We chose to make it easy to distinguish when
> things are done immediately and when an additional step is
> required. Using
> getters/setters in GridData will result in a loss of information which
> will have to be captured instead in Javadoc.
This is another pretty bad argument, if you think about it. Because this
is
exactly the kind of information that SHOULD be in Javadoc, not in some sort
of "understood" internal design philosophy. Where exactly in the SWT
documentation does it state this design philosophy? How does a new SWT
programmer learn this? Or is it just something you decided on amongst
yourselves, regardless of the accepted conventions of design, and pass on
to
programmers through experience?
It's an interesting concept, but since it directly opposes convential
wisdom, is not documented, and is not strictly enforced, it's unlikely to
be
intuitive to newcomers.
Joe
_______________________________________________
platform-swt-dev mailing list
platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-swt-dev
_______________________________________________
platform-swt-dev mailing list
platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-swt-dev
