| RE: [platform-swt-dev] AWT Toolkit using SWT (was: From Swing to SWT) |
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Scott
Stanchfield scott@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://javadude.com
Lead
author of "Effective VisualAge for Java, Version
3"
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-----Original Message-----
From: platform-swt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:platform-swt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Lane Sharman
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:05 PM
To: platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [platform-swt-dev] AWT Toolkit using SWT (was: From Swing to SWT)
Scott Stanchfield wrote:
Bongo, FreeBongo, and now Conga radically cuts the programming out of the GUI construction phase: the content designer is essentially drawing java objects without knowledge that he is manipulating a hierarchy of java instances.IMHO, the "right" thing to do is to get people to realize that creating UIs isn't that big of a deal. (And GUI builders help this a lot). One thing I'm working on at work is a UI framework concept that provides an MVC/Command patterned separation of UI and Business logic, so the UI is "pluggable".
UIs do not just generate action button commands. They render notifications, updates, test (if they can) for proper input patterns, repaint. A good GUI deals well with Z ordering of layers. Double Buffering. Having worked with a GUI Builder for about seven years now, my hat is truly off to the original authors of Conga.Having a pluggable UI is really the key, here. In particular, if this is done right, the UI could be SWT, AWT, Swing, JSP, or anything else for that matter. What this does is let you utilize whatever you need to make a particular type of UI good. You can set up your JSP to create a good *html* interface, and you can use SWT to create a good *GUI* interface, and not worry about having to code the UI so that both work. Each is independent. With good MVC/Command separation, the UI layer becomes quite thin, basically a matter of "respond to user interaction by running a command".
On a supportive note, I really appreciate this dialog. I am now of the opinion that some thought should given to an interface API for GUIs. This interface API would insulate the client applications, the Builder and most of the runtime from the underlying implementation classes. We have some good examples of this in j.sql.* which is mostly a set of interfaces which "providers" implement. However, this is really hard stuff to get right. It should not be tackled without some serious thought to who, how much time, what ultimate benefit, cost and ultimate return.
I have read again the principles of SWT: "efficient", "portable", and "access to the user-interface facilities of the operating system". I would like to add one more "Builder Enabling". If I could make some strategic changes to the base class , there would be a foundation on which to create a Builder.
Just some thoughts.
-Lane
Lane, I am sure you have already considered this (and hence the "hard to do" conclusion), but it seems that the answer for both Swing and SWT is an abstraction layer that wraps around both Swing and SWT. ...Yes, that is correct. That abstraction layer and attendant factory class is called java.awt.Toolkit. I believe the simplest and best answer to all this AWT-and-SWT interoperability jazz is to create an AWT Toolkit implementation using SWT. I did some work on this while ago, but have not done anything on it for almost a year. If someone else wants to pick it up, I'm willing to provide some assistance. This is certainly a necessary and worthwhile project as it will get plenty of users and is essential (IMHO) for SWT to get standardized through JCP. (I had meant to follow up with you Lane after your talk at the LAJUG last week but have been busy...) Jim _______________________________________________ platform-swt-dev mailing list platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-swt-dev_______________________________________________ platform-swt-dev mailing list platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-swt-dev-- Lane Sharman http://opendoors.com Conga, GoodTimes and Application Hosting Services http://opendoors.com/lane.pdf BIO