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Re: [platform-swt-dev] AWT Toolkit using SWT (was: From Swing to SWT)
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Scott Stanchfield wrote:
IMHO, the "right" thing to do is to get people to realize that creating UIs
isn't that big of a deal. (And GUI builders help this a lot). One thing I'm
working on at work is a UI framework concept that provides an MVC/Command
patterned separation of UI and Business logic, so the UI is "pluggable".
Bongo, FreeBongo, and now Conga radically cuts the programming out of the
GUI construction phase: the content designer is essentially drawing java
objects without knowledge that he is manipulating a hierarchy of java instances.
Having a pluggable UI is really the key, here. In particular, if this is
done right, the UI could be SWT, AWT, Swing, JSP, or anything else for that
matter.
What this does is let you utilize whatever you need to make a particular
type of UI good. You can set up your JSP to create a good *html* interface,
and you can use SWT to create a good *GUI* interface, and not worry about
having to code the UI so that both work. Each is independent.
With good MVC/Command separation, the UI layer becomes quite thin, basically
a matter of "respond to user interaction by running a command".
UIs do not just generate action button commands. They render notifications,
updates, test (if they can) for proper input patterns, repaint. A good GUI
deals well with Z ordering of layers. Double Buffering. Having worked with
a GUI Builder for about seven years now, my hat is truly off to the original
authors of Conga.
On a supportive note, I really appreciate this dialog. I am now of the opinion
that some thought should given to an interface API for GUIs. This interface
API would insulate the client applications, the Builder and most of the runtime
from the underlying implementation classes. We have some good examples of
this in j.sql.* which is mostly a set of interfaces which "providers" implement.
However, this is really hard stuff to get right. It should not be tackled
without some serious thought to who, how much time, what ultimate benefit,
cost and ultimate return.
I have read again the principles of SWT: "efficient", "portable", and "access
to the user-interface facilities of the operating system". I would like
to add one more "Builder Enabling". If I could make some strategic changes
to the base class , there would be a foundation on which to create a Builder.
Just some thoughts.
-Lane
(As always, open to thoughts and comments...)
-- Scott
====================
Scott Stanchfield
FGM, Inc.
scotts@xxxxxxx
====================
-----Original Message-----
From: platform-swt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:platform-swt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jim White
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:51 AM
To: platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: lane@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [platform-swt-dev] AWT Toolkit using SWT (was: From Swing to
SWT)
Brad O'Hearne wrote:
Lane,
I am sure you have already considered this (and hence the "hard to do"
conclusion), but it seems that the answer for both Swing and SWT is an
abstraction layer that wraps around both Swing and SWT.
...
Yes, that is correct. That abstraction layer and attendant factory
class is called java.awt.Toolkit.
I believe the simplest and best answer to all this AWT-and-SWT
interoperability jazz is to create an AWT Toolkit implementation using
SWT.
I did some work on this while ago, but have not done anything on it for
almost a year. If someone else wants to pick it up, I'm willing to
provide some assistance. This is certainly a necessary and worthwhile
project as it will get plenty of users and is essential (IMHO) for SWT
to get standardized through JCP.
(I had meant to follow up with you Lane after your talk at the LAJUG
last week but have been busy...)
Jim
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--
Lane Sharman
http://opendoors.com Conga, GoodTimes and Application Hosting Services
http://opendoors.com/lane.pdf BIO
