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Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
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Yeah, those are very cool, and show better like-minded branding than what we have so far for EMF/GMF/EMP. One benefit to ours is that the Modeling logo doubles as feature icon in the Help > About dialog within Eclipse. You could do the same by riffing on the Eclipse logo and adding your gear(s) to it.
While we're talking about marketing & branding, and not to kick sand on anyone... will STP have to be renamed (as did Mylyn, and now PHP/PDT, ATF, etc.) when it's time to exit incubation and the Foundation decides it wants to copyright "STP"? As a brandname STP is already used prominently in both the US and Canada [1]. Does that matter, given it's got nothing to do with software?
[1]
http://www.stp.com/Cheers,
Nick
On 10/20/07, Ian Skerrett <
ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:FWIW, I really like what STP has done. It conveys a sense of integration
and a family of projects. I hadn't seen this before, thanks for pointing it
out.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Etienne Juliot [mailto:etienne.juliot@xxxxxxx
]
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:50 AM
> To: PMC members mailing list
> Cc: ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx; Bjorn Freeman-Benson
> Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
>
> On STP project, we just have created a set of logos with a common design.
> Take a look at: http://www.eclipse.org/stp/
>
> Perhaps this could be a good idea for GMT and/or EMP projects.
>
> Etienne
> Obeo
>
> Jean Bezivin a écrit :
> > Ian,
> >
> > I tried to encourage people to create logos,
> > even before the clarification on project vs component started,
> > even before GMT joined modeling.
> >
> > I do not know where on Eclipse I should have read that this practice
> > should be avoided.
> >
> > I do not see how to change the situation now
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Jean
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/19/07, *Ian Skerrett* <
ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >
> > Jean,
> >
> >
> >
> > Logos and branding can be a very emotional subject. I understand
> > that people want to create an identity for the components that
> > they are developing. However, from an outsider perspective it
> > can create a lot of confusion and creates a perception that each
> > component is an individual discrete solution. Something I don't
> > think you want to convey on the modeling project.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >
> > *From:*
jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx>
> > [mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:
jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf
> > Of * Jean Bezivin
> > *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2007 1:42 PM
> > *To:* Ed Merks
> > *Cc:*
ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
> > PMC members mailing list; Bjorn Freeman-Benson;
> > modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
> >
> >
> >
> > Ian,
> >
> >
> >
> > I believe this is going much too far.
> >
> >
> >
> > When the ATL (AMW, TCS, etc.) logos were defined for
> >
> > the sole purpose of Eclipse component identification,
> >
> > I considered this as a very positive initiative.
> >
> >
> >
> > I really do not understand the rationale for this radical position.
> >
> >
> >
> > In my mind it is going to be VERY STRONGLY counter productive
> >
> > and will discourage a lot of good willing contributions.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Jean
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/19/07, *Ed Merks* < merks@xxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >
> > Ian,
> >
> > I don't really agree with your take on this. We have lots of nice
> > logos and
> > I'd not want to give up my EMF one:
> >
> >
> http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/images/modeling_pos_logo_fc_med.jpg
> >
http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/images/emf_logo.png
> > <http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/images/emf_logo.png>
> >
http://www.eclipse.org/gmf/images/logo_banner.png
> >
> > I'm not sure how many of the logos on the GMT page are non-Eclipse
> in
> > nature and that would be somewhat my concern:
> >
> > http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/download/
> >
> > But I personally think the ATL logo is a very nice Eclipse-branded
> > logo
> > that helps to build up the repertoir of Eclipse bands and
> trademarks:
> >
> > http://www.eclipse.org/m2m/atl/resources/ATL_Logo_Text.png
> >
> > It's certainly important to have better integration between
> > projects, I
> > heard that message loud and clear at ESE and we are lacking in
> > this area,
> > but diversity also has great value and allowing folks their own
> > space in
> > which to exist seems necessary to foster that...
> >
> > Consider projects too like RAP:
> >
> > http://www.eclipse.org/rap/
> >
> > There isn't even an attempt to define what Ajax means. It's even
> > lost the
> > capitalization that you'd expect from an acryonym. For
> > example, ifRAP is
> > fine ( http://www.eclipse.org/rap/), it seems kind of a double
> > standard to
> > say ATL is not.
> >
> >
> > Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> > mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:
merks@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > 905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Ian Skerrett"
> > <ian.skerrett@ecl
> > ipse.org
> > <http://ipse.org/>>
> To
> > Sent by: "'Jean Bezivin'"
> > modeling-pmc-boun <
> > Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>,
> > ces@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > "'PMC members mailing list'"
> > < modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>
> >
> > cc
> > 10/19/2007 01:12 "'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'"
> > PM <
> >
bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>>,
> >
> > modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> Subject
> > Please respond to RE: [modeling-pmc] feedback
> > on GMT
> > ian.skerrett@ecli web site
> >
pse.org <http://pse.org/>; Please
> > respond to
> > PMC members
> > mailing list
> > < modeling-pmc@ecl
> > ipse.org <http://ipse.org/>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What I would suggest is that the components of GMT should not have a
> > logo/graphic and have a descriptive name not a nickname. I think
> this
> > would go a long way to improving the situation. Btw, this goes for
> > all
> > the modeling sub-projects, for instance
> > http://www.eclipse.org/m2m/atl/
> > Having all these different logos in my opinion conveys a
> > perception that
> > there is no strategy or integration between the components or the
> > projects.
> >
> > My 2 cents?.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx> [mailto:
> > jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx
>] On Behalf Of Jean
> > Bezivin
> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 12:48 PM
> > To: PMC members mailing list
> > Cc: ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
> > Bjorn Freeman-Benson;
> > modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
> >
> > I agree with you.
> >
> > I also agree that we have to improve much the organization of GMT.
> >
> > For oAW matters, I will transmit these remarks to Markus Voelter.
> > I will discuss with him directly next week at OOPSLA because
> > he will be there.
> >
> > Bjorn, will you be at OOPSLA and if yes would it be possible
> > to have a short meeting with Markus to stress the importance
> > of what has been said?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Jean
> >
> >
> > On 10/19/07, Ed Merks <merks@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:
merks@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > wrote:
> > Ian,
> >
> > I'll draw Nick's attention to that link gone astray...
> >
> > I agree with you. As the various parts of the oAW technology are
> > incorporated into the other projects, like Xpand into M2T and MWE
> into
> > EMFT, I'll ask folks to avoid any non-Eclipse branding on the
> > site. You
> > won't find IBM/Rational branding nor Borland branding at Eclipse,
> > so we
> > ought not be to seeing anything that isn't part of Eclipse's
> branding.
> > We'll queue up this topic for discussion at the next PMC meeting.
> >
> > It would be good to improve GMT's image as well. What are your
> > thoughts on
> >
> > this Jean?
> >
> >
> > Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> > mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > 905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Ian Skerrett"
> > < ian.skerrett@ecl
> > ipse.org
> > <
http://ipse.org/>>
> To
> > Sent by: < modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:
modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx> >
> >
> > modeling-pmc-boun cc
> >
ces@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > "'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'"
> > <
> >
bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> >
> > Subject
> > 10/19/2007 12:06 [modeling-pmc] feedback on
> > GMT web
> > PM site
> >
> >
> > Please respond to
> > ian.skerrett@ecli
> > pse.org <http://pse.org/>; Please
> > respond to
> > PMC members
> > mailing list
> > <modeling-pmc@ecl
> > ipse.org <http://ipse.org/> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Modeling PMC,
> >
> > Today, I was looking at the open Achitectureware project and in
> > general the
> >
> > GMT project. I don?t usually provide feedback on project specific
> > branding and marketing but I thought compelled to do so in this
> case.
> >
> > IMHO, from a branding and marketing perspective, the open
> > Architectureware
> > project looks out of place in the context of the Eclipse
> > community. They
> > essentially look like they have parachuted in their existing
> > project into
> > an Eclipse project web page. They actually also seem to have
> another
> > project web site http://www.openarchitectureware.org/
> > <http://www.openarchitectureware.org/>. I find it all very
> > confusing and probably detrimental to the Eclipse brand.
> >
> > If I look at the GMT site, it seems like the open architectureware
> > scenario
> >
> > plays out again and again. I see lots of project logos and cool
> > names
> > that seem to have very little to do with Eclipse? The perception
> > I am left
> > with is that GMT is hovering up existing modeling projects but not
> > really
> > integrating them into Eclipse? I think what you are doing is
> > creating an
> > incubator for new modeling projects, which is great, but in my
> > opinion what
> > you are communicating is something very different and will hurt the
> > perception of the overall modeling project.
> >
> > As I said, I usually don?t provide this type of feedback but in
> > this case I
> > just had to say something. I?d be happy to discuss further and
> > if you
> > want.
> >
> > Btw, when I went to try to find the PMC mailing list, the link on
> > this page
> >
http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/ points to
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/emft-dev
> > <
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/emft-dev>
> >
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > Ian Skerrett
> > Director of Marketing
> > Eclipse Foundation
> > 613-224-9461 ext. 227
> > blog: ianskerrett.wordpress.com <http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > modeling-pmc mailing list
> > modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:
modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > modeling-pmc mailing list
> > modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > __________________________________
> > Jean Bézivin - ATLAS Group (INRIA & LINA) - University of Nantes -
> > 2, rue
> > de la Houssinière
> > 44322 Nantes cedex 3 - France
> > tel. +33 2 51 12 58 13 - fax. +33 2 51 12 58 12 - cell.+33 6 14 32
> > 22 36
> > - e.mail: Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> > http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/lina/atl/ - Skype: jbezivin
> > ---------------------------------------
> > _______________________________________________
> > modeling-pmc mailing list
> > modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > __________________________________
> > Jean Bézivin - ATLAS Group (INRIA & LINA) - University of Nantes -
> > 2, rue de la Houssinière
> > 44322 Nantes cedex 3 - France
> > tel. +33 2 51 12 58 13 - fax. +33 2 51 12 58 12 - cell.+33 6 14 32
> > 22 36
> > - e.mail: Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> > http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/lina/atl/ - Skype: jbezivin
> > ---------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > __________________________________
> > Jean Bézivin - ATLAS Group (INRIA & LINA) - University of Nantes - 2,
> > rue de la Houssinière
> > 44322 Nantes cedex 3 - France
> > tel. +33 2 51 12 58 13 - fax. +33 2 51 12 58 12 - cell.+33 6 14 32 22 36
> > - e.mail: Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:Jean.Bezivin@univ-
> nantes.fr>
> > http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/lina/atl/
- Skype: jbezivin
> > ---------------------------------------
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > modeling-pmc mailing list
> > modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc
> >
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