Ian,
I tried to encourage people to create logos,
even before the clarification on project vs component started,
even before GMT joined modeling.
I do not know where on Eclipse I should have read that this practice
should be avoided.
I do not see how to change the situation now
Best regards,
Jean
On 10/19/07, *Ian Skerrett* <ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Jean,
Logos and branding can be a very emotional subject. I understand
that people want to create an identity for the components that
they are developing. However, from an outsider perspective it
can create a lot of confusion and creates a perception that each
component is an individual discrete solution. Something I don't
think you want to convey on the modeling project.
Ian
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf
Of * Jean Bezivin
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2007 1:42 PM
*To:* Ed Merks
*Cc:* ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
PMC members mailing list; Bjorn Freeman-Benson;
modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
Ian,
I believe this is going much too far.
When the ATL (AMW, TCS, etc.) logos were defined for
the sole purpose of Eclipse component identification,
I considered this as a very positive initiative.
I really do not understand the rationale for this radical position.
In my mind it is going to be VERY STRONGLY counter productive
and will discourage a lot of good willing contributions.
Best regards,
Jean
On 10/19/07, *Ed Merks* < merks@xxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Ian,
I don't really agree with your take on this. We have lots of nice
logos and
I'd not want to give up my EMF one:
http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/images/modeling_pos_logo_fc_med.jpg
http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/images/emf_logo.png
<http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/images/emf_logo.png>
http://www.eclipse.org/gmf/images/logo_banner.png
I'm not sure how many of the logos on the GMT page are non-Eclipse in
nature and that would be somewhat my concern:
http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/download/
But I personally think the ATL logo is a very nice Eclipse-branded
logo
that helps to build up the repertoir of Eclipse bands and trademarks:
http://www.eclipse.org/m2m/atl/resources/ATL_Logo_Text.png
It's certainly important to have better integration between
projects, I
heard that message loud and clear at ESE and we are lacking in
this area,
but diversity also has great value and allowing folks their own
space in
which to exist seems necessary to foster that...
Consider projects too like RAP:
http://www.eclipse.org/rap/
There isn't even an attempt to define what Ajax means. It's even
lost the
capitalization that you'd expect from an acryonym. For
example, ifRAP is
fine ( http://www.eclipse.org/rap/), it seems kind of a double
standard to
say ATL is not.
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx>
905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
"Ian Skerrett"
<ian.skerrett@ecl
ipse.org
<http://ipse.org/>> To
Sent by: "'Jean Bezivin'"
modeling-pmc-boun <
Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>,
ces@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"'PMC members mailing list'"
< modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
cc
10/19/2007 01:12 "'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'"
PM <
bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>>,
modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject
Please respond to RE: [modeling-pmc] feedback
on GMT
ian.skerrett@ecli web site
pse.org <http://pse.org/>; Please
respond to
PMC members
mailing list
< modeling-pmc@ecl
ipse.org <http://ipse.org/>>
What I would suggest is that the components of GMT should not have a
logo/graphic and have a descriptive name not a nickname. I think this
would go a long way to improving the situation. Btw, this goes for
all
the modeling sub-projects, for instance
http://www.eclipse.org/m2m/atl/
Having all these different logos in my opinion conveys a
perception that
there is no strategy or integration between the components or the
projects.
My 2 cents?.
Ian
From: jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx> [mailto:
jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Jean
Bezivin
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 12:48 PM
To: PMC members mailing list
Cc: ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
Bjorn Freeman-Benson;
modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
I agree with you.
I also agree that we have to improve much the organization of GMT.
For oAW matters, I will transmit these remarks to Markus Voelter.
I will discuss with him directly next week at OOPSLA because
he will be there.
Bjorn, will you be at OOPSLA and if yes would it be possible
to have a short meeting with Markus to stress the importance
of what has been said?
Best regards,
Jean
On 10/19/07, Ed Merks <merks@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
Ian,
I'll draw Nick's attention to that link gone astray...
I agree with you. As the various parts of the oAW technology are
incorporated into the other projects, like Xpand into M2T and MWE into
EMFT, I'll ask folks to avoid any non-Eclipse branding on the
site. You
won't find IBM/Rational branding nor Borland branding at Eclipse,
so we
ought not be to seeing anything that isn't part of Eclipse's branding.
We'll queue up this topic for discussion at the next PMC meeting.
It would be good to improve GMT's image as well. What are your
thoughts on
this Jean?
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx>
905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
"Ian Skerrett"
< ian.skerrett@ecl
ipse.org
<http://ipse.org/>> To
Sent by: < modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx> >
modeling-pmc-boun cc
ces@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'"
<
bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject
10/19/2007 12:06 [modeling-pmc] feedback on
GMT web
PM site
Please respond to
ian.skerrett@ecli
pse.org <http://pse.org/>; Please
respond to
PMC members
mailing list
<modeling-pmc@ecl
ipse.org <http://ipse.org/> >
Modeling PMC,
Today, I was looking at the open Achitectureware project and in
general the
GMT project. I don?t usually provide feedback on project specific
branding and marketing but I thought compelled to do so in this case.
IMHO, from a branding and marketing perspective, the open
Architectureware
project looks out of place in the context of the Eclipse
community. They
essentially look like they have parachuted in their existing
project into
an Eclipse project web page. They actually also seem to have another
project web site http://www.openarchitectureware.org/
<http://www.openarchitectureware.org/>. I find it all very
confusing and probably detrimental to the Eclipse brand.
If I look at the GMT site, it seems like the open architectureware
scenario
plays out again and again. I see lots of project logos and cool
names
that seem to have very little to do with Eclipse? The perception
I am left
with is that GMT is hovering up existing modeling projects but not
really
integrating them into Eclipse? I think what you are doing is
creating an
incubator for new modeling projects, which is great, but in my
opinion what
you are communicating is something very different and will hurt the
perception of the overall modeling project.
As I said, I usually don?t provide this type of feedback but in
this case I
just had to say something. I?d be happy to discuss further and
if you
want.
Btw, when I went to try to find the PMC mailing list, the link on
this page
http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/ points to
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/emft-dev
<https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/emft-dev>
Ian
Ian Skerrett
Director of Marketing
Eclipse Foundation
613-224-9461 ext. 227
blog: ianskerrett.wordpress.com <http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/>
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--
__________________________________
Jean Bézivin - ATLAS Group (INRIA & LINA) - University of Nantes -
2, rue
de la Houssinière
44322 Nantes cedex 3 - France
tel. +33 2 51 12 58 13 - fax. +33 2 51 12 58 12 - cell.+33 6 14 32
22 36
- e.mail: Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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__________________________________
Jean Bézivin - ATLAS Group (INRIA & LINA) - University of Nantes -
2, rue de la Houssinière
44322 Nantes cedex 3 - France
tel. +33 2 51 12 58 13 - fax. +33 2 51 12 58 12 - cell.+33 6 14 32
22 36
- e.mail: Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/lina/atl/ - Skype: jbezivin
---------------------------------------
--
__________________________________
Jean Bézivin - ATLAS Group (INRIA & LINA) - University of Nantes - 2,
rue de la Houssinière
44322 Nantes cedex 3 - France
tel. +33 2 51 12 58 13 - fax. +33 2 51 12 58 12 - cell.+33 6 14 32 22 36
- e.mail: Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/lina/atl/ - Skype: jbezivin
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