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RE: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
|
+1.
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, EA/Studio
[Embarcadero Technologies Logo]
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
110 Spadina Avenue, Suite 400 | Toronto, ON M5V 2K4
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Mobile: 613-301-9105
-----Original Message-----
From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Merks
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:00 PM
To: PMC members mailing list
Cc: Bjorn Freeman-Benson; Markus Voelter; PMC members mailing list; modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
Rich,
I know folks might be upset by this, I think off site links aren't
appropriate at Eclipse.
+1
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
Richard Gronback
<richard.gronback
@borland.com> To
Sent by: PMC members mailing list
modeling-pmc-boun <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Bernd
ces@xxxxxxxxxxx Kolb <b.kolb@xxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Bjorn Freeman-Benson
10/19/2007 03:48 <bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
PM Markus Voelter <voelter@xxxxxxx>
Subject
Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT
Please respond to web site
PMC members
mailing list
<modeling-pmc@ecl
ipse.org>
I guess Bernd was left off the list of Ed's message, so including in this
thread.
------------------
In the absence of a formally defined policy at the Foundation level on this
matter, I propose a PMC vote:
Do we forbid all links from the Modeling website at Eclipse.org to
contributing organizations (commercial, academic, or otherwise) until such
time there is a posted Foundation-sanctioned policy?
My vote:
+1
Thanks,
Rich
On 10/19/07 3:42 PM, "Ed Merks" <merks@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Bernd,
>
> By the same token, EMF started at com.ibm.etools.emf but you won't find
> signs of that. The E in EMF even stood for e-tools. But when we moved
it
> to Eclipse, we stripped all that is IBM from it, except for the
copyrights.
> I think that's very important. Even if oAW is not a big corporate brand,
> it at least gives the appearance of commercial interests being involved.
> After all, folks do consulting under this brand. And of course we
greatly
> value your contributions. After all, GMF is making good use of Xpand!
> It's the individuals making the contributions that we'd like to
recognize;
> their associated entities should play a secondary role at best. I'd like
> to see Eclipse provide some type of "list of credits under help" where
> contributors, committers, and their sponsoring affiliations could be
> advertised. I think that would be the appropriate place for non-Eclipse
> bands to appear. I think the oAW brand is only appropriate as an
external
> distro, like MyEclipse...
>
>
> Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
> 905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
>
>
>
>
>
> "Bernd Kolb"
> <b.kolb@kolbware.
> de>
To
> Sent by: "'Richard Gronback'"
> modeling-pmc-boun <richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> ces@xxxxxxxxxxx "'Ian Skerrett'"
> <ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> "'ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx,
> 10/19/2007 02:27 PMC members mailing list'"
> PM <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> "'Markus Voelter'"
> <voelter@xxxxxxx>
> Please respond to
cc
> PMC members
> mailing list
Subject
> <modeling-pmc@ecl RE: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT
> ipse.org> web site
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ian, Rich, Ed, Jean
>
> openArchitectureWare has been a project which has started independent of
> Eclipse and has been integrated into GMT at some point. Hence it does
have
> its own brand and a quite large community including a webpage with a
forum
> on it. Just to clarify, oAW is driven by individuals, not by a company.
> Most
> of the developers are not paid for what they do to oAW, at least not
> directly. It is one of the purposes of GMT to provide a way of
integrating
> promising new or existing projects into the Eclipse universe.
>
> However, we are aware that for openArchitectureWare this is a temporary
> state: at the moment we are in the process of splitting oAW into several
> pieces that will end up in various Eclipse Modeling project, dropping the
> openArchitectureWare name in the process.
>
> For example, the process has been finished for the Modeling Workflow
Engine
> (MWE) which can now be found in EMFT and is being removed from
> openArchitectureWare. If you have a look at the code and the
documentation
> you?ll find no references to openArchitectureWare anymore. The same will
be
> true for our Xpand contribution to the model-to-text component; it is
> currently in the process of being migrated to M2T.
>
> After we finished this process, openArchitectureWare will be much less
> important. Our goal is to keep the "brand" oAW as a kind of
"distribution"
> of well-cooperating Eclipse modeling components, combined with a set of
> more
> experimental modeling related tools. We hope to finish this process
within
> the next few weeks.
>
> I'd just want to make one remark w/r/t the branding of components. I
think
> the modeling project is different from the rest of the Eclipse projects.
> Here we have e.g. a project called Model-to-model. It contains several
> languages (components), basically doing the same. It is ok to have these
> different languages with the same functionality. However, it is important
> to
> show the user when he should/could use which component. Thus, in EMP
> components are much more independent from each other than in all other
> Eclipse projects. I think it is good here to have a little branding
(within
> a limited range, I agree) which gives these components an identity. And
> helps the users to distinguish them
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> Bernd Kolb
> (b.kolb@xxxxxxxxxxx)
> http://www.kolbware.de
>
> --
> KolbWare
> (Beratung & Coaching)
> Bernd Kolb
> Franz-Marc Str. 35
> 89520 Heidenheim
>
> Mobil: 0163/7321605
>
> From: Richard Gronback [mailto:richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 7:40 PM
> To: Ian Skerrett; ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx, PMC members mailing list;
Bernd
> Kolb; Markus Voelter
> Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
>
> Thanks for the ATL observation, Ian. I was under the impression that our
> ?identity crisis? components were all within GMT. ATL has graduated from
> GMT recently, as have several components of oAW, but I see they still
have
> a
> reference to the ATLAS Group on their page. This should be removed,
along
> with other references such as the Acknowledgement section at the bottom
of
> this page: http://www.eclipse.org/m2m/atl/usecases/webapp.modeling/ Of
> course, the logos are not what you mean, right? We have lots of logos in
> use within Modeling.
>
> Until such time there is a policy for advertising external entities
> (commercial, academic, or otherwise) on the Eclipse.org website, I agree
> that all references should be removed. As Ed mentioned, you won?t find
> links to IBM or Borland on the EMF or GMF sites.
>
> Regarding oAW, we have had discussions with them and decided the most
> painless approach was to require they strip their oAW identity when
> graduating to other modeling projects, also as Ed mentioned. The Xpand
and
> Workflow components are undergoing a namespace refactoring as they
migrate,
> and we?ll make sure there are no oAW on the M2T and EMFT websites. We?ll
> certainly try to speed up this process.
>
> Another timely topic is the recent announcement of the oAW 4.2 release (
> http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/oaw/news/index.php and
> http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/oaw/download/). I don?t recall a release
review
> taking place for this component (or ever for GMT), and I see they are
still
> providing links to download from www.openarchitectureware.org on their
> download page. Hopefully, we can correct this ASAP.
>
> Thanks,
> Rich
>
>
> On 10/19/07 1:12 PM, "Ian Skerrett" <ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> What I would suggest is that the components of GMT should not have a
> logo/graphic and have a descriptive name not a nickname. I think this
> would
> go a long way to improving the situation. Btw, this goes for all the
> modeling sub-projects, for instance
> http://www.eclipse.org/m2m/atl/ Having all these different logos in my
> opinion conveys a perception that
> there is no strategy or integration between the components or the
> projects.
> My 2 cents?.
> Ian
> ________________________________________
> From: jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jean
> Bezivin
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 12:48 PM
> To: PMC members mailing list
> Cc: ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx; Bjorn Freeman-Benson;
> modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT web site
>
>
> I agree with you.
>
>
>
> I also agree that we have to improve much the organization of GMT.
>
>
>
> For oAW matters, I will transmit these remarks to Markus Voelter.
>
> I will discuss with him directly next week at OOPSLA because
>
> he will be there.
>
>
>
> Bjorn, will you be at OOPSLA and if yes would it be possible
>
> to have a short meeting with Markus to stress the importance
>
> of what has been said?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Jean
>
> On 10/19/07, Ed Merks <merks@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Ian,
>
> I'll draw Nick's attention to that link gone astray...
>
> I agree with you. As the various parts of the oAW technology are
> incorporated into the other projects, like Xpand into M2T and MWE into
> EMFT, I'll ask folks to avoid any non-Eclipse branding on the site. You
> won't find IBM/Rational branding nor Borland branding at Eclipse, so we
> ought not be to seeing anything that isn't part of Eclipse's branding.
> We'll queue up this topic for discussion at the next PMC meeting.
>
> It would be good to improve GMT's image as well. What are your thoughts
on
>
> this Jean?
>
>
> Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
> 905-413-3265 (t/l 969) "Ian Skerrett" <
> ian.skerrett@ecl ipse.org <http://ipse.org>
>> To Sent
> by: <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx <
> mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> modeling-pmc-boun
>> cc ces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> "'Bjorn
> Freeman-Benson'" <
>
bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject 10/19/2007
> 12:06 [modeling-pmc] feedback on GMT
> web PM site Please respond
> to ian.skerrett@ecli pse.org <http://pse.org> ;
> Please respond to PMC
> members mailing
> list <modeling-pmc@ecl ipse.org <
http://ipse.org>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Modeling PMC,
>
> Today, I was looking at the open Achitectureware project and in general
the
>
> GMT project. I don?t usually provide feedback on project specific
> branding and marketing but I thought compelled to do so in this case.
>
> IMHO, from a branding and marketing perspective, the open
Architectureware
> project looks out of place in the context of the Eclipse community. They
> essentially look like they have parachuted in their existing project into
> an Eclipse project web page. They actually also seem to have another
> project web site http://www.openarchitectureware.org/. I find it all
very
> confusing and probably detrimental to the Eclipse brand.
>
> If I look at the GMT site, it seems like the open architectureware
scenario
>
> plays out again and again. I see lots of project logos and cool names
> that seem to have very little to do with Eclipse? The perception I am
left
> with is that GMT is hovering up existing modeling projects but not really
> integrating them into Eclipse? I think what you are doing is creating an
> incubator for new modeling projects, which is great, but in my opinion
what
> you are communicating is something very different and will hurt the
> perception of the overall modeling project.
>
> As I said, I usually don?t provide this type of feedback but in this case
I
> just had to say something. I?d be happy to discuss further and if you
> want.
>
> Btw, when I went to try to find the PMC mailing list, the link on this
page
> http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/ points to
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/emft-dev
>
>
> Ian
>
> Ian Skerrett
> Director of Marketing
> Eclipse Foundation
> 613-224-9461 ext. 227
> blog: ianskerrett.wordpress.com <http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com>
> _______________________________________________
> modeling-pmc mailing list
> modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> modeling-pmc mailing list
> modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc
>
>
>
> --
> Richard C. Gronback
> Borland Software Corporation
> richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx
> +1 860 227 9215
>
> _______________________________________________
> modeling-pmc mailing list
> modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc
>
>
--
Richard C. Gronback
Borland Software Corporation
richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx
+1 860 227 9215
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