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RE: [modeling-pmc] FW: Teneo
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To clarify - changes are coming. The details of those proposed changes will
be circulated to all Board members prior to the meeting where the issue will
be discussed. We will make every effort to ensure that all Board members
have an opportunity to review the material and discuss the potential changes
with stakeholders prior to the meeting.
Janet
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Merks [mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:02 AM
To: Janet Campbell
Cc: 'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'; 'PMC members mailing list';
modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [modeling-pmc] FW: Teneo
Janet,
Your answer in this note chain is a little less clear that your clear
statement in November of 2005:
'You are correct, as long as the GPL or LGPL code is downloaded by the
client separately and not made part of the Eclipse code base we are fine
with it.'
Could I as a board member find out more about what the new concerns are,
who shares those concerns, and what steps are being taken to address those
concerns? Obviously one of my concerns will be any adverse impact of such
changes on committers and community members who are currently following the
clear advice given in the past, so I'd like to be well informed in
preparation for the board meeting. Given Mike's reaction so far, folks
like Martin are obviously already very concerned, perhaps unduly or perhaps
with good cause.
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
"Janet Campbell"
<janet.campbell@e
clipse.org> To
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
04/13/2007 02:37 cc
PM "'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'"
<bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
"'PMC members mailing list'"
<modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
"'mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx, PMC
members mailing list'"
<modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
<modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject
RE: [modeling-pmc] FW: Teneo
I've had a look through my email and Ed and I discussed this in November
2005. We have had a number of Committers and Members ask for clarification
on our policy with respect to works-with and pre-req dependencies since
that
time. Some concerns have also been expressed regarding the potential
impact
of having dependencies with unfriendly licenses or known pedigree concerns.
As a result, we asked the IP Advisory Committee to give us some guidance on
how to proceed and we will be rolling out some changes to address this
issue. The proposed changes will be discussed at an upcoming Board meeting
and I would encourage you to raise any concerns you may have at that time.
Regards,
Janet
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Merks [mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 8:05 AM
To: PMC members mailing list
Cc: Bjorn Freeman-Benson; 'Janet Campbell'; mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx,
PMC members mailing list; modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] FW: Teneo
Rich,
I see you're surprised too. From other note threads I've been forwarded,
I get the sense that there are retroactive IP changes in the works, but I'm
not sure that many of the board members are aware that such changes might
be in the works. I would certainly be very annoyed to be told that
providing integration with Hibernate, the most popular and widely used
persistence architecture, is suddenly and retroactively taboo at Eclipse.
That really doesn't sound very open to me and in general, retroactively
disallowing something previously allowed is not a fair or reasonable way to
treat the community. Martin's Teneo project has been providing value to
the community for years, and his helpfulness in the newsgroup is exemplary,
so even this approach of publicly singling out Teneo for renewed scrutiny
doesn't seem like the most diplomatic way to make inquiries. It might have
been more diplomatic to have started by talking to Janet about the review
history first rather than by dumping a problem that needs to be solved on
the PMC. I certainly expect Janet to respond with a yes, otherwise my
comments about her having reviewed and approved the project would have been
false; I don't make a habit of doing that. So that yes answer will beg
the question, how can something that's approved suddenly be a problem?
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
Richard Gronback
<richard.gronback
@borland.com> To
Sent by: "mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx, PMC
modeling-pmc-boun members mailing list"
ces@xxxxxxxxxxx <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Janet
Campbell'"
<janet.campbell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
04/13/2007 06:40 cc
AM Bjorn Freeman-Benson
<bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject
Please respond to Re: [modeling-pmc] FW: Teneo
PMC members
mailing list
<modeling-pmc@ecl
ipse.org>
Is this ?prereq?ing? restriction something new?
Thanks,
Rich
On 4/12/07 10:31 PM, "Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Janet,
Were you aware that Teneo was prereq?ing LGPL code?
Mike Milinkovich
Office: +1.613.224.9461 x228
Mobile: +1.613.220.3223
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
From: Ed Merks [mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:22 PM
To: mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'; 'Janet Campbell';
modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx; mtaal@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Teneo
Mike,
Teneo was fully reviewed by Janet in its present form, i.e., with
these known dependencies. It does not redistribute any GPL/LGPL
code; the necessary jar must be downloaded separately by the client.
Hibernate is a very popular technology, so providing integration for
it has great value, despite the licensing concerns.
http://www2.sys-con.com/java/readerschoice2004/frameliveupdate.cfm?BType=17
Teneo also supports JPA and JDO. Note that Shaun Smith and Stefan
Eberle (two guys working EclipseLink) were recently added as
committers to Teneo so that the overlap between their EMF persistence
work for EclipseLink and Martin's EMF persistence work for Teneo can
be reconciled into more cohesive overall solution. There is overlap,
but also lots of complementary things. It's a great example of how
well our community functions. (Martin's support for clients on the
newsgroup is remarkable!)
Note that extended capabilities such as those provided by Teneo are
what's helping to make modeling so popular:
http://www2.sys-con.com/java/readerschoice2004/frameliveupdate.cfm?BType=11
http://www2.sys-con.com/java/readerschoice2004/frameliveupdate.cfm?BType=14
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
"Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx> 04/11/2007 03:03
PM
Please respond to
<mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
cc <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'"
<bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Janet Campbell'"
<janet.campbell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject Teneo
Ed,
I?m sending this to you as the project leader for EMFT.
I stumbled across Teneo <http://www.eclipse.org/emft/projects/teneo/>
this morning and would like to make you aware of an issue with it
that needs to be resolved. Teneo?s dependence on Hibernate --- which
is licensed under the LGPL --- is a problem, as the LGPL and EPL are
incompatible. Is there not another open source persistence solution
(Castor, EclipseLink) which can be used instead?
Mike Milinkovich
Executive Director
Eclipse Foundation, Inc.
Office: +1.613.224.9461 x228
Mobile: +1.613.220.3223
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>
blog: http://milinkovich.blogspot.com
<http://milinkovich.blogspot.com/>
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Richard C. Gronback
Borland Software Corporation
richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx
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