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Re: [m2m-iwg] Re : OMA-DM? (Werner Keil)
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Julien,
Thanks a lot for the input. XML was also discussed, and while there are several Markup Languages like e.g. SensorML related to sensors and data exchange in the IoT, most of the latest APIs and Services lean towards JSON as a leaner form of text mode.
@Mike I pointed to the JSR page a little while ago in this thread.
And just to correct the state, Oracle actually withdrew it (when I first pointed to it this was correct, just thought at the DemoCamp it may have been dormant)
Regards,
Werner
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:43:06 +0100
> From: Julien Vermillard <jvermillard@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: m2m Industry Working Group <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] Re : OMA-DM? (Werner Keil)
> Message-ID:
> <CAN9CcB8RKK5MuBK-mSp_EKhOfpVYdKD_t_BLLuvE9PH+vMhR3g@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
> I'm Benjamin and Nicolas colleague, I work at Sierra Wireless on the
> server
> side device communication.
>
> I have some kind of experience with OMADM and it's true it's very
> complicated and the specification is huge. It's not really a piece of cake
> to implement but there is some interesting features :
> - standardized data tree : you have a tree model for your device and some
> nodes are standards like firmware version, manufacturer, etc.. very
> convenient
> - lightweight security, it doesn't use SSL/TLS but a very lightweight
> HMAC
> authentication algorithm (make much more sense for M2M communication)
> - text mode (XML) or binary mode (WBXML)
>
> HTH
> Julien
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Nicolas,
> >
> > Thanks for the information. That is pretty much what the experts from
> > Cinterion said, adding, that some proposed "OMA-Lite" improvement may
> help
> > improve its usefulness, but it seems, there has not been a lot of
> progress
> > to any of these changes.
> >
> > They may not know every Cinterion flyer or slide marketing creates, but
> > the only page where I saw "OMA-DM compliant" more or less means, that
> > customers or partners (e.g. those using their boards inside devices, I
> > mentioned one in my talk by a Spanish vendor) could use it, but it is
> very
> > carrier-centric, and in a world of iTunes or Google Play, the carriers
> have
> > far less control over devices especially on phones which the protocol
> was
> > intended for. So some carriers who use Cinterion modules (e.g. in N
> > America) may use them together with an infrastructure using OMA-DM, but
> > Cinterion itself does not actively use or support it at the moment.
> > That didn't mean nobody else does, they were only speaking for
> themselves,
> > beside talking about the pros and cons, too.
> >
> > If especially in the US it's so widely spread, it does seem strange,
> that
> > nobody was willing to pick up the dormant OMA-DM JSR at JCP. Well I'd
> > interpret it as a signal of insecurity by vendors about the Phone
> market,
> > but should play a role big enough for Java in the M2M market again (and
> at
> > least Cinterion and others build a JVM into more and more of these
> modules)
> > then it would be weird not to support it.
> >
> > WebSockets and other standards defined by other organizations were
> > immediately picked up, so why not this one?;-)
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Werner
> >
> > > Hi Werner.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your feedback.
> > >
> > > I did not mean to be understood as advocating OMA-DM for M2M. This
> > > protocol has its pros and cons of course.
> > >
> > > I was merely mentioning the current state of adoption of this
> protocol.
> > >
> > > Now, of course I can't say how it will prove to be successful in the
> M2M
> > > space.
> > >
> > > But as far as commercial products are concerned:
> > > - Sierra Wireless certainly does have products that support OMADM. You
> > can
> > > take my word for it, or look up "Sierra Wireless OMA-DM" in Google and
> > > find
> > >
> >
> http://www.sierrawireless.com/productsandservices/AirVantage/Management_Service.aspx
> > > - I don't work for Telit so cannot say for sure, but the same Google
> > > exercise points to
> > http://www.telit.com/en/products/cdma.php?p_ac=show&p=111
> > > - as for Cinterion themselves, I suspect that the person you talked to
> > did
> > > not find this during their investigation:
> > >
> >
> http://www.expertenkonferenzen.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Cinterion-Wireless-Modules-GmbH-Thomas-Festl.pdf
> > > (slide 17). Of course, I am not sure since I don't work for them!
> > >
> > > :)
> > >
> > > But all in all, it does look widespread already...
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Nicolas.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Reply message -----
> > > De : "Werner Keil" <werner.keil@xxxxxxx>
> > > Pour : "m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx" <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Objet : [m2m-iwg] Re : OMA-DM? (Werner Keil)
> > > Date : mer., nov. 28, 2012 22:57
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nicolas/all,
> > >
> > > I spoke with Cinterion after my M2M presentation at Eclipse DemoCamp
> > > Berlin. They said, OMA-DM in its current phone and carrier driven form
> > will
> > > hardly make it to play a relevant role for M2M. They did some
> > investigation,
> > > but confirmed, no commercial M2M product currently uses it.
> > >
> > > If this was to change, then also that JCP JSR is "dormant" meaning,
> any
> > > company that is also a JCP Member could make use of what has been done
> > so far
> > > and volunteer to take a new Spec Lead role in this standard.
> > >
> > > At least in January during a JCP EC F2F Meeting we will have a chance
> to
> > > discuss these things further in California. Beside Cinterion others,
> > > especially the Open Geospatial Consortium Architecture Board meet the
> > same week.
> > > And selected members of it are interested to meet if we find an
> > opportunity.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > > Datum: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:00:08 -0500
> > > Von: m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > An: m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Betreff: m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 13, Issue 8
> > >
> > >
> > > Send m2m-iwg mailing list submissions to
> > > m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/m2m-iwg
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > m2m-iwg-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of m2m-iwg digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re : OMA-DM? (Werner Keil)
> > > 2. November 27th M2M IWG Call (Scott de Deugd)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:56:59 +0100
> > > From: "Werner Keil" <werner.keil@xxxxxxx>
> > > To: m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [m2m-iwg] Re : OMA-DM?
> > > Message-ID: <20121125185659.306800@xxxxxxx>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > >
> > > Nicolas,
> > >
> > > Thanks, I should meet Cinterion and their newly elected JCP EC
> > > Representative tomorrow at DemoCamp Berlin.
> > >
> > > Just in case you haven't seen it via the UOMo Docs page or Twitter,
> this
> > > is the SlideShare from Copenhagen also mentioning Sierra's solution
> here
> > at
> > > CPH Airport:
> > >
> >
> http://www.slideshare.net/keilw/the-eclipse-m2m-iwg-and-standards-for-the-internet-of-things
> > >
> > > As I presented Unit type-safe DSLs in Berlin this June I may cut the
> > > introduction shorter in Berlin, given the slot is the last one and I
> may
> > not
> > > have more than ~30 minutes, but I guess I'll leave all the M2M Real
> Live
> > Use
> > > Cases in there, plus one or two slides on Cinterion as they are
> present
> > to
> > > discuss in the Q&A.
> > >
> > > If OMA-DM is such a widely used protocol, I guess a planned "Device
> > > Management" JSR for Embedded (based on Oracle's current Device Access
> > API) might
> > > take it into consideration, even though the old JSR was withdrawn at
> the
> > > time.
> > >
> > > So were e.g. 108 and both it and successors like 256 and 275 (voted
> down,
> > > while the "Final" 256 never got any adoption in real devices even from
> > > Nokia;-) which now gain momentum again through SensorWeb or Unit and
> > > Quantity-sensitive use cases like those on Smart Container and
> > Temperature Unit here.
> > >
> > > Will reply any outcome of the discussion with Cinterion after the
> > > DemoCamp.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Werner
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
> > > <
> >
> http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/private/m2m-iwg/attachments/20121128/1951c67e/attachment.html
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > m2m-iwg mailing list
> > > m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/m2m-iwg
> > >
> > >
> > > End of m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
> > > **************************************
> > _______________________________________________
> > m2m-iwg mailing list
> > m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/m2m-iwg
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 12:33:59 +0000
> From: "Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "m2m Industry Working Group" <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] Re : OMA-DM? (Werner Keil)
> Message-ID:
> <829730635-1354192441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-155166491-@b13.c11.bise6.blackberry>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
>
> Werner,
>
> The Eclipse M2M group has no relationship with the JCP. I don't think
> anyone on this list would know why the JSR is dormant.
>
>
>
> Mike Milinkovich
> mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
> +1.613.220.3223
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Werner Keil" <werner.keil@xxxxxxx>
> Sender: m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:08:12
> To: <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: m2m Industry Working Group <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [m2m-iwg] Re : OMA-DM? (Werner Keil)
>
> Nicolas,
>
> Thanks for the information. That is pretty much what the experts from
> Cinterion said, adding, that some proposed "OMA-Lite" improvement may help
> improve its usefulness, but it seems, there has not been a lot of progress to
> any of these changes.
>
> They may not know every Cinterion flyer or slide marketing creates, but
> the only page where I saw "OMA-DM compliant" more or less means, that
> customers or partners (e.g. those using their boards inside devices, I mentioned
> one in my talk by a Spanish vendor) could use it, but it is very
> carrier-centric, and in a world of iTunes or Google Play, the carriers have far less
> control over devices especially on phones which the protocol was intended
> for. So some carriers who use Cinterion modules (e.g. in N America) may use
> them together with an infrastructure using OMA-DM, but Cinterion itself does
> not actively use or support it at the moment.
> That didn't mean nobody else does, they were only speaking for themselves,
> beside talking about the pros and cons, too.
>
> If especially in the US it's so widely spread, it does seem strange, that
> nobody was willing to pick up the dormant OMA-DM JSR at JCP. Well I'd
> interpret it as a signal of insecurity by vendors about the Phone market, but
> should play a role big enough for Java in the M2M market again (and at least
> Cinterion and others build a JVM into more and more of these modules) then
> it would be weird not to support it.
>
> WebSockets and other standards defined by other organizations were
> immediately picked up, so why not this one?;-)
>
> Kind Regards,
> Werner
>
> > Hi Werner.
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback.
> >
> > I did not mean to be understood as advocating OMA-DM for M2M. This
> > protocol has its pros and cons of course.
> >
> > I was merely mentioning the current state of adoption of this protocol.
> >
> > Now, of course I can't say how it will prove to be successful in the M2M
> > space.
> >
> > But as far as commercial products are concerned:
> > - Sierra Wireless certainly does have products that support OMADM. You
> can
> > take my word for it, or look up "Sierra Wireless OMA-DM" in Google and
> > find
> >
> http://www.sierrawireless.com/productsandservices/AirVantage/Management_Service.aspx
> > - I don't work for Telit so cannot say for sure, but the same Google
> > exercise points to
> http://www.telit.com/en/products/cdma.php?p_ac=show&p=111
> > - as for Cinterion themselves, I suspect that the person you talked to
> did
> > not find this during their investigation:
> >
> http://www.expertenkonferenzen.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Cinterion-Wireless-Modules-GmbH-Thomas-Festl.pdf
> > (slide 17). Of course, I am not sure since I don't work for them!
> >
> > :)
> >
> > But all in all, it does look widespread already...
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Nicolas.
> >
> >
> > ----- Reply message -----
> > De : "Werner Keil" <werner.keil@xxxxxxx>
> > Pour : "m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx" <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Objet : [m2m-iwg] Re : OMA-DM? (Werner Keil)
> > Date : mer., nov. 28, 2012 22:57
> >
> >
> >
> > Nicolas/all,
> >
> > I spoke with Cinterion after my M2M presentation at Eclipse DemoCamp
> > Berlin. They said, OMA-DM in its current phone and carrier driven form
> will
> > hardly make it to play a relevant role for M2M. They did some
> investigation,
> > but confirmed, no commercial M2M product currently uses it.
> >
> > If this was to change, then also that JCP JSR is "dormant" meaning, any
> > company that is also a JCP Member could make use of what has been done
> so far
> > and volunteer to take a new Spec Lead role in this standard.
> >
> > At least in January during a JCP EC F2F Meeting we will have a chance to
> > discuss these things further in California. Beside Cinterion others,
> > especially the Open Geospatial Consortium Architecture Board meet the
> same week.
> > And selected members of it are interested to meet if we find an
> opportunity.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Werner
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:00:08 -0500
> > Von: m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > An: m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Betreff: m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 13, Issue 8
> >
> >
> > Send m2m-iwg mailing list submissions to
> > m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/m2m-iwg
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > m2m-iwg-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of m2m-iwg digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re : OMA-DM? (Werner Keil)
> > 2. November 27th M2M IWG Call (Scott de Deugd)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:56:59 +0100
> > From: "Werner Keil" <werner.keil@xxxxxxx>
> > To: m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [m2m-iwg] Re : OMA-DM?
> > Message-ID: <20121125185659.306800@xxxxxxx>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Nicolas,
> >
> > Thanks, I should meet Cinterion and their newly elected JCP EC
> > Representative tomorrow at DemoCamp Berlin.
> >
> > Just in case you haven't seen it via the UOMo Docs page or Twitter, this
> > is the SlideShare from Copenhagen also mentioning Sierra's solution here
> at
> > CPH Airport:
> >
> http://www.slideshare.net/keilw/the-eclipse-m2m-iwg-and-standards-for-the-internet-of-things
> >
> > As I presented Unit type-safe DSLs in Berlin this June I may cut the
> > introduction shorter in Berlin, given the slot is the last one and I may
> not
> > have more than ~30 minutes, but I guess I'll leave all the M2M Real Live
> Use
> > Cases in there, plus one or two slides on Cinterion as they are present
> to
> > discuss in the Q&A.
> >
> > If OMA-DM is such a widely used protocol, I guess a planned "Device
> > Management" JSR for Embedded (based on Oracle's current Device Access
> API) might
> > take it into consideration, even though the old JSR was withdrawn at the
> > time.
> >
> > So were e.g. 108 and both it and successors like 256 and 275 (voted
> down,
> > while the "Final" 256 never got any adoption in real devices even from
> > Nokia;-) which now gain momentum again through SensorWeb or Unit and
> > Quantity-sensitive use cases like those on Smart Container and
> Temperature Unit here.
> >
> > Will reply any outcome of the discussion with Cinterion after the
> > DemoCamp.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Werner
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> <http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/private/m2m-iwg/attachments/20121128/1951c67e/attachment.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > m2m-iwg mailing list
> > m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/m2m-iwg
> >
> >
> > End of m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
> > **************************************
> _______________________________________________
> m2m-iwg mailing list
> m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/m2m-iwg
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> m2m-iwg mailing list
> m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/m2m-iwg
>
>
> End of m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10
> ***************************************
