Re: [m2e-dev] [m2e-users] moving m2e to java7 past kepler sr0

[Max Rydahl Andersen <max.andersen@xxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message -----
> I don't know how JBossTools releases are aligned with Eclipse and m2e
> releases, but I'd like to see java version usage breakdown for the
> m2e version 1.3.1 today and then get the same stats for 1.4 around
> Kepler/SR1. This should give us better idea how popular java6 still is
> with users who are actually likely to upgrade to 1.5.

okey - give me a few days and I can get that. requires a bit of processing.

/max

> 
> --
> Regards,
> Igor
> 
> On 2013-05-30 3:26 PM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> Does RedHat make stats on m2e version vs java version usage publicly
> >> available?
> >
> > I can give you the data yes - what kind do you want ?
> >
> > I dont have exact m2e version, I have which eclipse/jbosstools version with
> > and what java version.
> >
> > /max
> >
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >> Igor
> >>
> >> On 2013-05-30 9:51 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> No one can predict exact java6 usage year+ from today.
> >>>>
> >>>> Java7 syntax makes developers more productive, so yes, it is important,
> >>>> both for developers and for end users.
> >>>
> >>> I know - I wish I could move to Java 7 too like many runtimes are;
> >>> but tools is a different situation - especially core things like m2e is.
> >>>
> >>>> This is really chicken-and-egg problem, more products stay on java6,
> >>>> less motivation there is for users to upgrade.
> >>>
> >>>> Whether this justifies move to java7, I don't know yet, but I certainly
> >>>> don't plan to wait until the last user migrates off java6.
> >>>
> >>> I never said you had to wait for the *last* user to migrate off, just
> >>> when
> >>> *most* has and
> >>> 1.6 is a minority.
> >>>
> >>> That has not happened yet and probably won't before end of 2014 if
> >>> looking
> >>> at the
> >>> trend.
> >>>
> >>> /max
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Igor
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2013-05-30 7:51 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> I don't plan to downcompile m2e to java6 even if this is supported, I
> >>>>>> plan to require java7 when running m2e.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry my french but this is seriously disturbing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eclipse Project is on Java 1.5
> >>>>> http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eclipse EPP (where m2e is included in) requires Java 1.6 or higher too
> >>>>> (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=401310)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is it really that important to you to use new Java 7 syntax to break
> >>>>> such
> >>>>> a useful compatibility as still running on Java 6 ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I find that worse reason than "my IT department is too retarded to
> >>>>> allow
> >>>>> java7" or as there actually is data for:
> >>>>> "majority of your users runs with Java 6"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /max
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> Igor
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2013-05-30 7:37 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> I totally agree with the change to Java7. just because when using
> >>>>>>>> Java7
> >>>>>>>> you can still produce binaries to the target system in Java6 (if
> >>>>>>>> were
> >>>>>>>> required).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If the binaries can run on Java 6 then that is all fine - but I read
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> request that Java 7 would be required to run.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> People that don't want to change and use new features that only can
> >>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>> provided by new Java version should stay with the old version. The
> >>>>>>>> same
> >>>>>>>> will happen for teams that would like to use new Jetty 9 and its
> >>>>>>>> news
> >>>>>>>> features.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jetty 8 and 9 can coexist in eclipse - m2e old version and new
> >>>>>>> cannot.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Very different things.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Most people that I know and use Mac is moving to Java7 due the
> >>>>>>>> security
> >>>>>>>> issues reported with Java6. Btw, Mountain Lion didn't come with Java
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> to install one you should use Java 7.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Most people I know are also on Java 7, but that is not the users that
> >>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>> are the most of.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is called observer bias and something to be vary aware of and
> >>>>>>> why
> >>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>> collect actual user data instead of looking at the people we actually
> >>>>>>> meet
> >>>>>>> in our day to day
> >>>>>>> work which tend to be years ahead of the main user adoption.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> /max
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 30/05/13 07:00, Martin Lippert wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hey!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, Max, for the heads-up here.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I can confirm very similar numbers from both the Spring Tool
> >>>>>>>>> Suite and the Groovy/Grails Tool Suite. We have about 55% running
> >>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>> Java6. This number is even a bit higher on Mac (about 60%).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I also share the motivation for moving to Java7, but it would cut
> >>>>>>>>> off
> >>>>>>>>> something between 50% and 60% of our users (roughly speaking). So
> >>>>>>>>> please don't exclude them from new m2e versions that soon...!!! :-)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks!!!
> >>>>>>>>> -Martin
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 30.05.13 11:51, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> I've pinged Martin Lippert from STS who confirmed similar numbers
> >>>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>> he'll follow on this thread with the exact numbers.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to propose moving m2e to require java7 execution
> >>>>>>>>>>> environment
> >>>>>>>>>>> after Kepler SR0 is out. I am getting really addicted to
> >>>>>>>>>>> try-with-resources syntax [1], and with java6 past it's eol [2]
> >>>>>>>>>>> already,
> >>>>>>>>>>> I see little/no reasons to stick with this version any longer.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have a good reasons to stay with java 6 past this
> >>>>>>>>>>> coming
> >>>>>>>>>>> June? ("my IT department is too retarded to allow java7" is
> >>>>>>>>>>> probably
> >>>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>> a good reason).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/exceptions/tryResourceClose.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> [2] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Igor
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> m2e-users mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> m2e-users@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/m2e-users
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>
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> >
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-- 
/max