Re: [linux-distros-dev] customize gtk theme makes eclipse 100% more usab

[Sebastian Gurin <sgurin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 22 May 2009 19:08:15 +0300
Pantelis Koukousoulas <pktoss@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I just objected to the statement that "ALL" linux users use gnome/gtk
> (us KDE users are
> human beings too, you know :) and we are many too)

hey I like kde too. but you have to admit, kde users are many and very sensible too ;)

> > note that not all programers are linux or even gtk users... :)
> Well, those that use eclipse in linux / gnome probably are ;) Those
> that don't use linux/gnome
> don't have this specific problem :)

In my case, the examples I can give you is windows people trying to migrate their development box to linux. And i'm not agree with that all gnome/linux/eclipse users must know that eclipse visual spacing confguration must to be done customizing a gtk theme.

> > if you make something like
> > [...]
> > So, the sollution has not to be invasive to gtk themes or to other applications...
> 
> Sure it does not *have* to, but if the problem is more general than
> eclipse, then the other applications
> benefit too. If gtk themes are not broken everyone wins.

mmm... perhaps for other more traditional applications the waste of space is a benefit. For example, we programmers want eclipse tree views much compact as possible so we maximize information representation. But in the case of a common user tree widgets (a preferences tree, for example) with no more than 10 nodes, big spacing can be nice. 

In other words, gnome themes seems to be designed for common user trees in mind, not for programmer's trees. 

IMHO a gtk application can and shoud customize its special aspects... but shound't affect other program theme.

> I don't think that the lack of action on eclipse side is on purpose or
> by design.
> It is probably that developers were not aware of the problem/solution,
> or they waited gnome to fix its themes instead.

I think it is not true that  "developers were not aware of the problem/solution"

I asked in irc.freenode.org#eclipse and someone tell me that the reason is "it is not the business of eclipse to touch gtk themes". And I think at some point it is a wise 	
decision but, in this case, imho, too much user usability and visual quality is lost.

IMHO, no matter the cause, eclipse developers are given an extremly low priority to aestetics, visual queality and user experience (at least in linux) and those categories shoud be important in an IDE !

> 
> In any case, it may be problematic to get eclipse people to accept
> using a different way to launch eclipse just for Linux/gtk.
> It is more likely to get the shell script way to be accepted in
> distros, or to have a linux-specific plugin that interacts
> with the gtk configuration system if the user asks it to.
> 

I suspect it too. Also, it would be almost impossible to convince all gtk theme authors that GtkTreeView::horizontal-separator shoud be 0 not other.

> Cheers,
> Pantelis
> 


-- 
Sebastian Gurin <sgurin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>