Re: [ide-dev] Some Infos About Oomph

[Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>]

Oh, and I guess the controversial thing that I really want people to think
about and this probably needs to be dealt with at a higher power, but say
I have this scenario:

Say I’m building a system that uses node.js as the server to manage
communication with a Raspberry Pi with code there written in C++ and
Python. Later I graduate from the node server and start using Java server
side with vert.x and all the great jars up on Maven Central to build an
analytics engine that uses Apache Cassandra and Spark.

I have a team of people and I want to standardize on Eclipse as the IDE
since it’s the only thing that does all of this in a single workspace.

Now, for node.js I want to use NodEclipse, for Python I want to use Pydev,
for C++ I want to use CDT with my (theoretical) Wascana Raspberry Pi
cross-compiler plug-ins, and for Java, I’m fine with JDT and m2e. This is
the truly Integrated Development Environment that drives my love for
Eclipse.

Now assuming all these great third party plug-ins are up on the Eclipse
Marketplace, it should be possible to add them to the list of things to
install in Oomph, or at least the most popular ones. Is that possible? Is
it desirable? Is it even allowed by the Eclipse board? But, man, it would
be awesome to see from eclipse.org.

Doug

On 2015-01-28, 10:32 AM, "Doug Schaefer" <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> wrote:

>Ah, sorry, I didn’t get past that, it was too jarring :).
>
>But once I did, I guess it’s in the right direction. It’s very familiar in
>that it replicates the Eclipse downloads page, almost. Just a couple of
>items that I’d like to hear what others think. We can move this to
>bugzilla if there’s interest.
>
>- We should really order the entry the same way we do the downloads page,
>i.e. The things most users will want to use at the top. I shouldn’t have
>to scroll down to find the IDE for Java.
>- I know a lot of users that would like to install multiple packages. Yes,
>lots of C++ developers do Web and Java server development too, especially
>as IoT becomes a real thing. Most installers I’ve seen allow you to select
>a number of features and then do the install. I think that would be a cool
>benefit to Oomph that sets it well above what you get from the Downloads
>page.
>
>Thanks for this!
>Doug.
>
>On 2015-01-28, 10:18 AM, "Eike Stepper" <stepper@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>Hi Doug,
>>
>>Thank you for trying it out and for giving feedback. We'll change the
>>questionnaire to show up later when the installed
>>product is launched:
>>
>>     458454: [Installer] Show questionnaire later
>>     https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=458454
>>
>>If you try to forget about that for a moment, how was your remaining
>>experience?
>>
>>Cheers
>>/Eike
>>
>>----
>>http://www.esc-net.de
>>http://thegordian.blogspot.com
>>http://twitter.com/eikestepper
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Am 28.01.2015 um 16:10 schrieb Doug Schaefer:
>>> Thanks Eike. We¹ve downloaded the installer and showed it to a couple
>>>of
>>> people on our QNX Momentics team. One of the things we¹re mainly
>>>concerned
>>> about is having a good install experience for new users and use that
>>> mindset when evaluating install technologies.
>>>
>>> I guess, as a new user, I found it really confusing that the first
>>>thing I
>>> was asked for was to set up a bunch of preferences, the first being
>>> ³Refresh Resources Automatically². New users won¹t likely know what the
>>> preferences mean until they try it out, and they may never know what
>>> Refresh Resources Automatically, means. What¹s a Resource?
>>>
>>> Do you have an even simpler mode that skips over that part? We¹ve all
>>>seen
>>> installers for product and they usually aim at the absolute newbie. The
>>> idea is to get them into your product with the least amount of
>>>friction.
>>> That first impression is pretty lasting, even if they only run the
>>> installer once.
>>>
>>> I was just wonder what your philosophy is and what drove you to put the
>>> preferences settings first.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Doug.
>>>
>>> On 2015-01-28, 8:07 AM, "Eike Stepper" <stepper@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 28.01.2015 um 13:08 schrieb Max Rydahl Andersen:
>>>>> Where can I try that nice oomph looking installer ?
>>>> You can download it from
>>>>http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse_Oomph_Installer
>>>>
>>>>> and is there a a way to reuse it for building my own custom installer
>>>>>of
>>>>> non-eclipse.org content, such as JBoss Tools and/or JBoss Developer
>>>>> Studio  ?
>>>> Yes, you'd need to repackage the installer with a slightly modified
>>>> oomph.ini option. But let me start with some details
>>>> about how product and project profiles are discovered (I'll omit the
>>>>word
>>>> "profiles"):
>>>>
>>>> Each product is logically contained in a product catalog and each
>>>>project
>>>> is logically either contained in a project
>>>> catalog or, if it's a sub-project, in another project. All catalogs
>>>>are
>>>> logically contained in a catalog index. The
>>>> index also contains pointers to SetupTask extension packages. All
>>>> products, projects and extensions are thereby
>>>> discoverable from the index. Physically the containment can an href,
>>>> i.e., the entire index tree can be fragmented into
>>>> many files. These files are typically accessible through a web
>>>>browser.
>>>>
>>>> At Eclipse.org we maintain a default index:
>>>> 
>>>>http://git.eclipse.org/c/oomph/org.eclipse.oomph.git/plain/setups/org.e
>>>>c
>>>>li
>>>> pse.setup
>>>> And the Eclipse.org product catalog:
>>>> 
>>>>http://git.eclipse.org/c/oomph/org.eclipse.oomph.git/plain/setups/org.e
>>>>c
>>>>li
>>>> pse.products.setup
>>>> And the Eclipse.org project catalog:
>>>> 
>>>>http://git.eclipse.org/c/oomph/org.eclipse.oomph.git/plain/setups/org.e
>>>>c
>>>>li
>>>> pse.projects.setup
>>>> And a Github.com project catalog:
>>>> 
>>>>http://git.eclipse.org/c/oomph/org.eclipse.oomph.git/plain/setups/com.g
>>>>i
>>>>th
>>>> ub.projects.setup
>>>>
>>>> The index and all the elements contained in it are referenced through
>>>> logical URIs, for example index:/org.eclipse.setup
>>>> for the index itself. The physical URIs are determined by Oomph's
>>>>general
>>>> URI-redirection facility, which is controlled
>>>> through two different mechansims:
>>>>
>>>> 1) URIRedirectionTasks that are specified in the applicable profiles,
>>>>for
>>>> example the user profile.
>>>>
>>>> 2) System properties (or env vars if the dots are replaced by
>>>> underscores) that are for example specified in the
>>>> eclipse.ini (or oomph.ini for that matter). They have the form
>>>>
>>>>      "-Doomph.redirection." + someID + "=" + fromURI + "->" + toURI"
>>>>
>>>> The involved URIs can point to directories, in which case they
>>>>redirect
>>>> that directory and its contents.
>>>>
>>>> The physical URI of our default catalog is hard-coded in Oomph, but it
>>>> can be easily redirected to any other location.
>>>> So, one way to provide a custom installer is to add the following to
>>>>the
>>>> oomph.ini file:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>-Doomph.redirection.index=index:/org.eclipse.setup->http://foo.bar.com/
>>>>s
>>>>et
>>>> ups/index.setup
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand it might be better that you don't maintain an own
>>>>index
>>>> and require your users to use a repackaged
>>>> installer. Instead we could add a new product catalog to the existing
>>>> index at Eclipse.org. You could add your products
>>>> there and people would see them immediately and could install them
>>>>with
>>>> their existing Oomph installer. If that sounds
>>>> interesting I suggest you submit a bugzilla so that we can discuss the
>>>> details.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> /Eike
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> http://www.esc-net.de
>>>> http://thegordian.blogspot.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/eikestepper
>>>>
>>>>
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