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Re: [equinox-dev] Equinox->Bundles component is getting crowded


to me it is neither of these options.  It is about community and clarity for our consumers.  Walking up to Equinox you just have a sea of bundles.  Add in the p2 and security stuff and the sea turns into an ocean.  Say you hear that Equinox has implementations of some OSGi service specs.  If you go to the download page today you have to grovel through spec impls, launchers, random other stuff and cannot tell one from the other.  Since there is no particular web/wiki page for people interested in spec implementations, it is hard to build a community around that topic.   People interested in contributing to standard spec impls cannot easily find related bugs etc.  There is also no clear lead of that community who is plotting the course/planning, coordinating execution, building the community, ...  You can replace OSGi service spec with p2, security, ...  

A number of these issues can be addressed simply by structuring the download site or wiki or...  If you address most of them then in effect you have just created a component without actually creating a component.  So what are we afraid of?  Why not reify the structure we think we have?

That begs the question, what is the structure? The challenge is that all partitionings will have problems as different people have different views on the world.  would the http service be part of "standard services" or "server side"?  However the existance of issues need not stop progress or movement.  So this discussion is really about defining that structure.  At least thats my view...

Jeff



BJ Hargrave <hargrave@xxxxxxxxxx>
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Re: [equinox-dev] Equinox->Bundles component is getting crowded





What is the point of the proposed change?  Tom's mail suggests we
subdivide bundles. But in what way? To organize commit rights or bugs in
bugzilla? Or both? I guess that is what is not clear. Clarity here will
help us evaluate choices. It seems we can easily have M bugzilla
components and N commit right sets with M >=N. Right now (for bundles) M
and N both equal 1. Are we looking to increase M or N or both?
--

BJ Hargrave
Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM
OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance
hargrave@xxxxxxxxxx

office: +1 386 848 1781
mobile: +1 386 848 3788




From:
Jeff McAffer <Jeff_McAffer@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
Equinox development mailing list <equinox-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
2007-09-12 16:03
Subject:
Re: [equinox-dev] Equinox->Bundles component is getting crowded




yes but under the new plan you pointed out, the commit rights will be
managed by groups and groups will have a 1:1 relationship to components
and components will have associated leads, bugzilla entries, websites, ...
This is alot of infrastructure to put in place for each bundle.

We did "bundles" originally because we could not come up with any
reasonable partitioning of the space.  To date we have gotten away with it
because a) the number of bundles in there was relatively low and b) many
have very little activity.  As Tom points out, this is changing.  Our
solution space seem to be N bundles => 1 group, N groups or M groups where
1 < M < N.  Unfortunately, it is still not clear that there is a
reasonable grouping so while (at least to me) M groups feels like a good
spot, it will be challenging.  Here are some thoughts
- "framework" = the framework.  This stays unchanged
- "standard" = bundles that implement OSGi standard services
- "p2"
- "security" = if needed
- "bundles" = catch all for things that don't fit  

This is just a stake in the ground.

Jeff



John Arthorne/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA
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Re: [equinox-dev] Equinox->Bundles component is getting crowded









Since "component" is a confusing term, I should clarify my comments on
this.  I like the idea of being more fine-grained with Unix groups (CVS
commit rights), because I think it encourages new committers. If someone
joins the community with a strong interest in a narrow area (such as
security or provisioning), but isn't interested in the rest of the
framework, they could quickly earn commit rights in that area, without
having to give them write access to other code they aren't qualified to
maintain (or aren't interested in maintaining).  On the question of
bugzilla components, I don't particularly care whether we have one or ten
- these are fairly easy to change over time as the need arises.

John


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I agree one component per bundle is probably overkill.  However, it's not
necessarily true that the CVS commit groups match 1-1 with Bugzilla
groups. While it's often convenient to do it this way, it's not a
constraint that we need to conform to.  I should also add that the EMO has
a plan under consideration for standardizing the group structure for Unix
groups, and part of this work is to facilitate election across multiple
groups (see item 6 in
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/attachment.cgi?id=77092).  Essentially,
simultaneously nominating an individual for N groups would only require a
single election, and a single vote per committer. Just some things to
consider...


Thomas Watson <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
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There are two extreme positions to take. Lump a large number of loosely
related deliverables under one component or create a separate component
for each and every deliverable. I'm not sure I favor the latter extreme.
Currently the Equinox download page allows you to download each bundle
individually so each bundle is a separate downloadable item. Creating a
separate component for each and every bundle in Equinox may prove to be
too much overhead. It is my understanding that in Eclipse typically every
bugzilla component has its own set of commit rights in CVS. If we have a
very high number of components then we will be holding a very large number
of committer elections to get all the committers the access they need :-)

I think we a balance and create components as we see fit to split up the
different work areas in Equinox instead of creating a component for every
bundle.

Tom



BJ Hargrave---09/12/2007 12:31:35 PM---It would probably be best if each
separately downloadable item had its own
BJ Hargrave/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
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Re: [equinox-dev] Equinox->Bundles component is getting crowded











It would probably be best if each separately downloadable item had its own

component against which people could file bugs.
--

BJ Hargrave
Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM
OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance
hargrave@xxxxxxxxxx

office: +1 386 848 1781
mobile: +1 386 848 3788




From:
Thomas Watson/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
To:
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Date:
2007-09-12 12:34
Subject:
Re: [equinox-dev] Equinox->Bundles component is getting crowded



For the security stuff I was referring to the security-specific bundles
like login (JAAS integration etc.)

You are right there is a lot of cross-cutting concerns with the other
security related work that will not really fit into any one component.

Tom



John Arthorne ---09/12/2007 11:25:42 AM---Creating a new component for p2
definitely makes sense to me. I don't know much about the security work,
but that may be diffi

John Arthorne <John_Arthorne@xxxxxxxxxx>
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Re: [equinox-dev] Equinox->Bundles component is getting crowded






Creating a new component for p2 definitely makes sense to me. I don't know

much about the security work, but that may be difficult to partition into
its own component because it's an inherently cross-cutting concern. If
there end up being a number of security-specific bundles, it may make
sense.

Generally speaking, I think more components is a good thing. It's a great
way to bring in new committers who may not be able to make the large
commitment needed to contribute across a large part of Equinox.

John


Thomas Watson <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
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The Equinox project continues to grow with new components and new
contributes being added. Thanks everyone!!

As new contributions are graduated into Equinox proper we need to place
them under one of the existing components. Currently we have the
"Framework" and "Bundles" components for Equinox proper in bugzilla/cvs. A

large majority of the new contributions will fall into the "Bundles"
component. For example, we have a few work areas in the equinox incubator
which are very active (e.g. p2, security etc). Once this work graduates it

will likely to be placed into the generic "Bundles" component. This will
make an already crowded component even more crowded.

Should we consider creating a more diverse set of components for the work
which is graduated into Equinox? I think the p2 and security work will
deserve their own component when they graduate. Thoughts?

Tom
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