Re: [epp-dev] Minimum BREE for EPP Neon

[Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Oberhuber" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Eclipse Packaging Project" <epp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 August, 2015 6:19:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [epp-dev] Minimum BREE for EPP Neon
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Eric, all –
> 
> 
> 
> Since I was part of the Eclipse Platform PMC decision moving to Java 8, I
> briefly wanted to mention some reasons for that decision:
> 
> 
> 
> - Java 8 is available today on all major Platforms – including Linux-ARM for
> example – and by multiple JRE vendors. In terms of security fixes, it’s
> safer than Java 7 (TLSv1.2 for example is only enabled in Java 8 by
> default).
> 
> - By the time Neon ships, Java 8 will be 2 years old (so one can’t call that
> bleeding edge J )
> 
> - Finally, Java 8 introduces some interesting new language features which
> some contributors can’t wait using. This is a difference compared to Java 7
> which just updated the libraries but not the language. It’s true we have to
> cater to users, but we also have to cater to the contributors. If the
> Eclipse Platform starts looking old-fashioned and lame (and forbidding new
> language features puts us at risk of looking so), we’d risk losing
> contributors (which the Platform really needs).

It's worth mentioning also that what pulled the trigger was Eclipse Help system which relies on Jetty and it requires Java 8 in it's latest (and safest) release.

Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse team

> 
> 
> 
> So, this decision was not about giving developers any toys, but it was
> carefully weighing in on the aspects mentioned above. While some (hopefully
> few) might struggle with this decision, we hope that the benefit outweighs
> the itches.
> 
> See also the Aug5 meeting notes here: https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/PMC
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Martin
> 
> --
> 
> Martin Oberhuber , SMTS / Product Owner – Development Tools, Wind River
> 
> direct +43.662.457915.85 fax +43.662.457915.6
> 
> 
> 
> From: epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Lars Vogel
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 11:28 PM
> To: Eclipse Packaging Project
> Subject: Re: [epp-dev] Minimum BREE for EPP Neon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Eric and all,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FYI - the platform PMC decided to also move to Java 8 for Neon, Dani just
> announced it on cross.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards, Lars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Eric Rizzo < eclipse-mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx >
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm not an EPP package maintainer or committer, but I'd like to provide some
> user-community perspective on this.
> Java 8 is just over 1 year old, and it's well known that many people and
> (especially) corporations are slow to adopt new versions. If Eclipse
> packages were to require Java 8, I can pretty much guarantee, based on many
> years' experience supporting the community, that there will be many
> complaints and confused users. In fact, in a corporate environment where
> users literally can not update their own workstations, I'd say it's highly
> likely that users would be unable to use Neon, or at least have to jump
> through corporate IT hoops to get it working.
> 
> I'm not knocking Java 8 (at least not here), I'm just trying to keep everyone
> focused on the users. Just because we, as tool developers, are enamored and
> in love with the latest toys doesn't mean we can justify pushing them down
> the throats of our large user base.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lars Vogel
> 
> 
> July 30, 2015 1:52 PM
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I noticed yesterday that m2e moved to Java 8, which triggered this
> request. I contacted Markus Knauer and he suggested that I should send
> an email to this list to trigger the discussion about BREE for the
> EPP's in Neon.
> 
> I personally think it would be great to require Java 8 as BREE for the
> EPP out of the following reasons:
> 
> - Java 7 is out of public maintenance
> - if the EPP's decide early that they will require Java 8, other
> project will have the option to improve their code base based on Java
> 8
> - if m2e requires Java 8, AFAIK this would bump the most important
> EPP's also to Java 8.
> 
> In Platform UI I would also like to support the Java 8 Date and Time
> API via Databinding, which would also bump platform to Java 8. This is
> not yet implement but on our roadmap. AFAIK the Jetty webserver also
> requires Java 8, which would result in a bump in the Eclipse Help
> system to Java 8.
> 
> Best regards, Lars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
> CEO vogella GmbH
> 
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