[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
Re: [eclipse.org-planning-council] Next Planning Council call : May2

Nick,

I see a note just after yours asking for "Volunteers needed for Photon Release Train Webinars!". If that asked for "Volunteers needed for 2018-09 Release Train Webinars!" that would seem fine to me. If that asked for "Volunteers needed for Desktop IDE 2018-09 Release Train Webinars!" that would seem unwieldy and overly qualified to me. Do we have another release train? Is an RCP application a Desktop IDE? Is any old IApplication a Desktop IDE? Must we include Desktop in the qualifier in order to exclude something? Are we not following branding guidelines because "Eclipse" is missing from the name ? Is it still under qualified because Eclipse has another Desktop IDE? And even if it doesn't currently, will we need to change it when Eclipse does have another one?Â

The discussion over "the name" has gone on forever and I still keep wondering (and asking), to what specifically are we assigning a name? In that light, I have to ask myself, what are the results of the release train process itself?ÂÂ

  1. The main site http://download.eclipse.org/releases/photon
  2. The EPP site http:/download.eclipse.org/technology/epp/packages/photon
  3. A bunch of EPP package/product downloads from http://download.eclipse.org/technology/epp/downloads/release/photon/

The p2 update sites do have names. What should they be for these two? That being asked, it's clear that that's hardly the most significant question to debate, given that the names appear only in p2 dialogs in whatever application includes p2 update support. In that context, the name hardly needs significant qualification to describe itself. When updating your Eclipse Desktop IDE (or whatever application) it will be clear that the update site is for some type of updates for your application in the first place.

The products/packages that can be downloaded are already branded and do already have names. That's all determined by the EPP project, not by the planning Council. We might influence them, but again, when a user downloads a package or install its with the Eclipse Installer (which we would have called the Oomph Installer but it was forcefully suggested that we use Eclipse Installer) we do so from a web page that will tell us what it is we are downloading. So how much qualification does the splash screen itself need? Not so much I think; just some type of version indicator. And in the end, the Foundation staff will determine the contents of the download pages...

I believe we really will never come up with a name to which someone won't object. In fact, it seems clear to me that any name will end up either meaningless, jargon, or over qualified by virtue of being descriptive. No one will be well served by it. Best we avoid the whole mess because that mess is kind of the point of dropping the branded release name in the first place.

Regards,
Ed


On 03.05.2018 22:12, Nick Boldt wrote:
I wasn't suggesting we need a new brand for the quarterly releases.Â

I was just saying that the job of turning the qualifier into a meaningful entity (be it a brand or even just a line of text clarifying what we're releasing) for consumers/customers/investors/contributors falls to the foundation's marketing people (and perhaps the blogosphere/twittersphere, too), whether that's for a codename like Europa or Kepler, a quasi-descriptive label like SimRel, or a single letter.Â

Call it what you will, it's still the quarterly desktop IDE release train.Â

:D
Â





On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:30 PM, Ed Merks <ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Nick,

I just don't think we need a brand. As you point out, the yearly rolling brands were also meaningless. Let's just not go there again and again. That's the point of dropping them in the first place, isn't it?

The products being released are branded. They have splash screens. That's a good place to have a brand.Â

But we don't need a brand for a p2 repo. And we don't need a brand for the process itself. We just need terminology to communicate with each other internally. Marketing people can describe what we do, without need for a catchy and sexy (or a stupid and meaningless) brand...

Cheers,
Ed


On 03.05.2018 19:19, Nick Boldt wrote:
Fair enough, but that's where it's branding/marketing's job to make the name meaningful.Â

Was "Neon" a meaningful name? No, but it gave marketing a chance to do a fun splash screen.Â
Was "Europa" a meaningful name? No, but it sure confused a lot of people into thinking the release was somehow Euro-centric.

And to counter your argument further, several people on PC calls have said that outside Eclipse, no one knows what a "SimRel" is, so by your logic, why did we choose that?Â

Again, it's because it's the Foundation's job to define for people what "Eclipse __qualifier_goes_here__ YYYY-MM" means.

I mean, what's in a name? A quarterly simultaneous release of a multi-language desktop IDE and a huge stack of additional features and plugins (plus several EPP packages) by any other name would smell as sweet. :D

Nick



On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Nick

If you read and heard my (and other) comments, you know that neither "R" nor "Tres" nor "SimRel" is really good in my opinion. It has zero meaning to 80% (just a guess) of our users. so, would be a really bad choice. Anyway, It would be fine with me as long as we do not use it when talking to users like in the splash screen, but only for us "internally".

Dani



From: Â Â Â ÂNick Boldt <nboldt@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: Â Â Â ÂEclipse Planning Council private list <eclipse.org-planning-council@eclipse.org>, "gunnar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <gunnar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Â Â Â Â03.05.2018 17:37
Subject: Â Â Â ÂRe: [eclipse.org-planning-council] Next Planning Council call : May2
Sent by: Â Â Â Âeclipse.org-planning-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx




Dani,

From another thread from Gunnar re: feedback from the board:

It's my understanding that the requirement for any name is that it *must* comply with the Foundation's project naming and branding guidelines.Â
> The name "Eclipse MM-YYYY" does not comply. Thus, it simply won't be possible. There must be a qualifier.

-- https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02985.html

Thus we can't call it "Eclipse 2018-09" because we need a qualifier. That qualifier, barring any better suggestions, was decided yesterday to be simply "SimRel".

Therefore the name is "Eclipse SimRel 2018-09".Â

I also suggested on the call (via the chat feature) that we could call it something like:

* Eclipse S 2018-09, and in marketing materials this could be "Eclipse S 2018-09 release" or more colloquiallyÂ"Eclipse's 2018-09 release"*; or

* Eclipse R 2018-09, since the next logical letter after the alphabetically named releases (if we skip Q) is R. Then marketing could be "Eclipse Release 2018-09" to make it clear what the R stands for. Or "Eclipse r2018-09" if we want the r to look like a revision prefix. Either way software people know what the R is for: the next revision or release.Â

Either no one saw the chat comments, or it was decided that a single letter qualifier is worse than "SimRel". In any case, it's SimRel now.

If the board / community / EMO really hates this new name, we could always revisit my other idea of calling the train "Tres". SeeÂhttps://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=532220#c27

The good news is that if we do the sept release as "SimRel" we would still be able to maintain alphabetic sequencing if in December 2018 or March 2019 we decide we need a qualifier that starts with a "T". :DÂ

Cheers,

Nick

* - because clever punctuation makes me happy, I guess


On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Maybe I did not have enough coffee, but I can't remember that we decided to use


Eclipse SimRel YYYY-MM

I thought we just drop everything but the date and let the splash screen communicated what it is. As mentioned "SimRel" is stupid because most users have no clue what this means. If at all, we'd have to use the full name.


Dani




From: Â Â Â Â
"MÃlanie Bats" <melanie.bats@xxxxxxx>
To: Â Â Â Â
eclipse.org-planning-council@eclipse.org
Date: Â Â Â Â
03.05.2018 12:01
Subject: Â Â Â Â
Re: [eclipse.org-planning-council] Next Planning Council call : May    Â2
Sent by: Â Â Â Â
eclipse.org-planning-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx




Hi,

Le 30/04/2018 Ã 11:02, MÃlanie Bats a ÃcritÂ:

The minutes from yesterday meetings are online:

https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/May_2_2018

Please review and complete my notes on the wiki.

Thanks,
--
MÃlanie Bats
CTO
+33 7 87 69 42 84
+33 5 34 57 16 29
@melaniebats

*Obeo*
25 Boulevard Victor Hugo - Colomiers - France

http://www.obeo.fr
_______________________________________________
eclipse.org-planning-council mailing list

eclipse.org-planning-council@eclipse.org
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-planning-council


IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact
emo@xxxxxxxxxxxto request removal.



_______________________________________________
eclipse.org-planning-council mailing list

eclipse.org-planning-council@eclipse.org
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-planning-council


IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact
emo@xxxxxxxxxxxto request removal.





--

Nick Boldt

Senior Software Engineer, RHCSA

Productization Lead :: JBoss Tools & Dev Studio

IM: @nickboldt / @nboldt / http://nick.divbyzero.com



TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.

@ @redhatnewsÂÂÂÂÂRed Hat


âThe Only Thing That Is Constant Is Changeâ -ÂHeraclitus
_______________________________________________
eclipse.org-planning-council mailing list
eclipse.org-planning-council@eclipse.org
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-planning-council

IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal.




_______________________________________________
eclipse.org-planning-council mailing list
eclipse.org-planning-council@eclipse.org
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-planning-council

IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal.



--

Nick Boldt

Senior Software Engineer, RHCSA

Productization Lead :: JBoss Tools & Dev Studio

IM: @nickboldt / @nboldt / http://nick.divbyzero.com



âThe Only Thing That Is Constant Is Changeâ -ÂHeraclitus


_______________________________________________
eclipse.org-planning-council mailing list
eclipse.org-planning-council@eclipse.org
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-planning-council

IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation.  To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal.


_______________________________________________
eclipse.org-planning-council mailing list
eclipse.org-planning-council@eclipse.org
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-planning-council

IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal.



--

Nick Boldt

Senior Software Engineer, RHCSA

Productization Lead :: JBoss Tools & Dev Studio

IM: @nickboldt / @nboldt / http://nick.divbyzero.com



âThe Only Thing That Is Constant Is Changeâ -ÂHeraclitus


_______________________________________________
eclipse.org-planning-council mailing list
eclipse.org-planning-council@xxxxxxxxxxx
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-planning-council

IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation.  To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal.