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RE: [eclipse.org-planning-council] Helios inclusion exception request for Marketplace Client

Hi Mik,

 

Thank you for this detailed response, which actually gives great of overview of the technical challenges for the MPC project.

I will continue any technical discussions in Bugzilla as you suggested, so we don’t hijack the planning council mailing list.

Please, make sure you update the project’s metadata, so one can easily find where to file bugs for MPC.

 

I think that some of the overview you just made could be reflected in the project plan, like:

-          M7: Small UI changes in response to community feedback

-          RC1: Documentation

This gives some quick feeling of what will happen in the project in the next months.

 

My vote is +1.

 

Greetings,

Kaloyan

 

From: Mik Kersten [mailto:mik@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 17 март 2010 г. 18:42 ч.
To: Raev, Kaloyan
Cc: 'eclipse.org-planning-council'; 'Technology PMC'; mpc-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'David Green'
Subject: RE: [eclipse.org-planning-council] Helios inclusion exception request for Marketplace Client

 

Hi Kaloyan,

 

I’m sorry that you had a bad first experience with MPC.  The tool is feature complete, but UI streamlining will continue for M7, and the Marketplace itself is still getting populated with the required content.  Regarding your feedback:

 

> The search capability works, but browsing is almost impossible. I can just see the first 6 elements in the list. If I am not sure what I am searching for, then it’s hard to find it. It is not easy to explore the marketplace currently.

 

Correct.  We took the same approach as Firefox: search-driven solution install in the rich client, browsing support in the marketplace web UI.  We did additionally added support for browsing Recent and Popular in MPC with separate tabs.  But beyond that I don’t see a reason why we would make the MPC client a full-featured solution browser, since the web-browser works very well for that.  If you think we should consider that, please review the long design discussions on the topic on the following bugs and lets us know your feedback.

 

296131: Eclipse Marketplace Client Requirements

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=296131

 

                295273: [discovery] move Mylyn Connector Discovery UI into P2

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=295273

 

For our UI review discussion and screenshots of how browsing and searching currently work see:

 

304703: [MPC] Marketplace client ui design review

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=304703

 

> The Install button of almost everything is disabled. There is no explanation why.

 

The reason is that many solutions lack install metadata.  Since it’s likely this will continue to be the case for a while, I agree that we need to make the UI more explicitly indicate what’s going on, while respecting the requirement stated in the bug above that solutions without install metadata get listed.  I created the following bug, please chime in if you have additional thoughts on how to improve this.

 

306225: improve display of solutions that do not provide install metadata

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=306225

 

> The integration with P2 does not seem to be good. If MPC allow me to install something, this does not mean that P2 will be happy with this.

 

Since Marketplace does not provide server-side validation of solutions, MPC does a lightweight validation before proceeding with P2-based install, but P2 is needed for the install itself (eg, to resolve and potentially download missing dependencies).  I don’t see a better approach, but we’re always happy to discuss improvements around this, and perhaps the wizard banner text can make what’s going to happen more clear?  Please file a bug against MPC/Install with any way you can think of improving on this.

 

> No documentation to help me how to use the tool – obviously I don’t know how.

 

I would prefer that we continue to avoid producing documentation for this until post M7.  Since the number of people who refer to the documentation is likely to be negligible compared to those who try it, I would like to continue seeing the feedback that you provided above that comes from people working through the UI, especially things like the suggestion to better handle missing entries.  That said, I’m confused by what you mean by “obviously I don’t know how”.  Assuming that you saw a listing with an “Install” button and attempted to click the button, you know everything you need to use the tool?  We will definitely provide a full walkthrough with screenshots of each step of the tool, but it’s really important that the first step is self-evident so that the user only needs to select a solution and click Next/Finish and have the right thing happen.  The pre-validation will help ensure that if the solutions site is broken they are warned before the P2 install kicks off.

 

Mik

 

--

Dr. Mik Kersten

Tasktop CEO, Mylyn Lead

http://twitter.com/mik_kersten

 

From: eclipse.org-planning-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipse.org-planning-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Raev, Kaloyan
Sent: March-17-10 1:38 AM
To: eclipse.org-planning-council
Cc: Technology PMC; mpc-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [eclipse.org-planning-council] Helios inclusion exception request for Marketplace Client

 

I am little bit anxious…

 

I am really excited about this tool. I have been watching the progress since it has been declared. I really like the idea and wish to have such tool in any Eclipse installation by default.

 

I’ve just done first test drive. I was able to install the tool from its p2 repo on my Helios M6 installation.

Well… my first impression is disappointment. The tool is either too buggy, or just I don’t understand how to use it. I feel the same way like I first saw P2 replacing the old update manager.

Just few words what exactly frustrates my first experience:

-          The search capability works, but browsing is almost impossible. I can just see the first 6 elements in the list. If I am not sure what I am searching for, then it’s hard to find it. It is not easy to explore the marketplace currently.

-          The Install button of almost everything is disabled. There is no explanation why.

-          The integration with P2 does not seem to be good. If MPC allow me to install something, this does not mean that P2 will be happy with this.

-          No documentation to help me how to use the tool – obviously I don’t know how.

 

This looks to me as a good proof of concept. I appreciate all the work from the team, but I think there is still some work to be done to see the rocking tool that we all wish.

Perhaps, I say nothing new to the team and they have already planned to clean up all the problems until the Helios final release. If this is the case, then I’d like to see this in the project plan. The current project plan on the MPC site is just empty.

 

So, I want to see some answers (especially on the project plan) before casting my vote.

 

Greetings,

Kaloyan

 

 

From: eclipse.org-planning-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipse.org-planning-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Markus Knauer
Sent: 16 март 2010 г. 20:42 ч.
To: eclipse.org-planning-council
Cc: Technology PMC; mpc-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [eclipse.org-planning-council] Helios inclusion exception request for Marketplace Client

 

+1 from me

(okay, I am a bit biased but I could test the MPC in the last few days and it really looks good.)

Regards, Markus

On 16 March 2010 19:32, Wayne Beaton <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Greetings Planning Council.

I make this request on behalf of the Marketplace Client, and the Technology PMC.

The new Eclipse Marketplace Client (MPC) project would like to join the Helios release train and is requesting an exception from the Planning Council.  MPC provides direct access from an Eclipse installation to the Eclipse-based solutions listed on Eclipse Marketplace.   You can think of it as an App Store like client for the Eclipse community  (but without the purchase ability).   We believe this will have a significant impact on promoting the Eclipse ecosystem.

The code has been under development for the last 2 months, is now feature complete and is now available in the git repository.   Our plan is to include it in the Java IDE and RPC packages for M6.

While this project has gotten off to a late start, it has progressed quickly (established project plan [1], website [2], build, etc.). The project is on track to keep up with the remaining deadlines, maintenance releases, etc. Marketplace Client is a "leaf" component, only going into a few EPP packages, so is low risk.

Thanks,

[1] http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=technology.packaging.mpc
[2] http://www.eclipse.org/mpc/

Wayne
--
Wayne Beaton, The Eclipse Foundation
http://www.eclipse.org

I'm going to EclipseCon!
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Markus Knauer
EclipseSource
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