[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
Re: [eclipse.org-committers] What is appropriate use of this list

Ed,
Personally I prefer newsgroups as opposed to mailing lists because they segregate things that require my personal attention as opposed to things that are broadcast in which I might be interested.
This is just how you personally choose to view newsgroups vs mailing lists. Newsgroups are still a broadcast medium. Really the only difference is that you choose to look at them when you fee like it, whereas per your other statement you feel you must respond immediately to email. Personal views on email aside, you are in the same boat with it filtered to a folder as if it were a newsgroup you read (as you say you would.)
You are in control of your email box and can organize it however you like.
So yes, we could all organize things so that notes to the committer list become a background or secondary thing. Many of use might have dozens or more of such secondary things; I certainly do. Treating this mailing list as a discussion list rather than an "important announcement" list is likely to result in notes to this list being overlooked.
So we should have a separate announcements only list, then? Rather than stifle discussion from worries about people missing an announcement we have a simple technical solution we can use instead.

I do agree that asking for help on this list is not appropriate.
That's what started all this. If only folks felt so inclined to answer newsgroup questions in such volume...
We're deciding how we want to use the list, not how it was used by one person.

Ed is correct that this goes to almost 1000 people (932 actually). If it really doesn't apply to the community then lets not post it here. But personally I fail to see any burden being placed on anyone.
I'd like to think I've seen everyone's point of view. Yes, answering questions is helpful, yes discussions are nice, yes having more discussions is more goodness good, and yes even the SVN thing was relatively interesting, but no, I'd prefer it to be anywhere other than a group where people are effectively forced to subscribe. Surely that's not unreasonable? And please note that I intend to subscribe to whatever that vehicle will turn out to be. It just seems disrespectful to insist there ought to be a captive audience for discussions. Maybe I'm being far too idealistic in my thinking. I'm certainly setting myself up as a target for scorn, but so be it...
So you're saying, more or less, "I've evaluated everyone else's ideas and I like mine best." ;)

As you are acutely aware, given your own community participation, being a committer is accepting the responsibility of participating in the community to at least a very minimal extent. Committers are also required to subscribe to their respective project dev list. Does that mean that if I ask a question on the dev list that a committer thinks is uninteresting (not wrong, just uninteresting) that they should unsubscribe? Where does responsibility as a committer begin? If it doesn't at least take into account the needs of others in the community then I think we all suffer. Keep in mind that only _committers_ can post to this list. It's not a free-for-all end-user list.

I get many hundreds of emails a day and they get filtered into appropriate folders where I can deal with them as needed. If I find a whole thread I don't want to read I just remove the thread. Nearly all modern email software handles this for you.
Apparently I'm odd in that I make sure that every note gets at least a glance, usually within a few minutes... I don't like having unread mail...
That's a personal choice, as I pointed out.
On the other hand I see a lot of discussion here that has happened *nowhere* else.
It's been asked where are the bugzillas with the problem reports and the feature requests?
Well the bugs weren't there before, either, were they? At least now there has been *some* discussion. I think you would have to agree that this is an improvement, if not 100% ideal.

Not on Planet, not on bugs, not on cross-projects-dev.
It did strike me that this subject would have been a perfect thing to have discussed on cross projects, but the captive audience is smaller. (It too has the release train project leads as a captive audience.)
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion this community spends a lot of time working only at the project level and not very much time sharing community-wide.
That's just human nature...
Isn't civilization itself the struggle against human nature? Ideally we organize our solutions and tooling to optimize the desired outcome, not the default state.

Planet is really the only other online place where everyone can come together, and unfortunately discussions on blogs are not easily tracked, shared, followed up on by most people.
It's also voluntary and to me covers a more diverse range of interesting topics.
Well since there has been very little discussion on this list so far I think that's pretty hard to judge is it not?

Planet posts tend to be ephemeral.
As opposed to mailing lists which we all like to visit again and again because they're so interesting. :-P
I made that comment in all seriousness. I know that I often refer to mailing list archives. At least Denis, Matt, Gabe, and Bjorn do this often as well. I have several times wanted a blog post and had a much harder time finding it.

This is long enough. I think we could argue little points ad nauseum and I've made the important points I wanted to address.

Karl