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Re: [eclipse.org-committers] What is appropriate use of this list
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Ed,
Personally I prefer newsgroups as opposed to mailing lists because
they segregate things that require my personal attention as opposed to
things that are broadcast in which I might be interested.
This is just how you personally choose to view newsgroups vs mailing
lists. Newsgroups are still a broadcast medium. Really the only
difference is that you choose to look at them when you fee like it,
whereas per your other statement you feel you must respond immediately
to email. Personal views on email aside, you are in the same boat with
it filtered to a folder as if it were a newsgroup you read (as you say
you would.)
You are in control of your email box and can organize it however you
like.
So yes, we could all organize things so that notes to the committer
list become a background or secondary thing. Many of use might have
dozens or more of such secondary things; I certainly do. Treating
this mailing list as a discussion list rather than an "important
announcement" list is likely to result in notes to this list being
overlooked.
So we should have a separate announcements only list, then? Rather than
stifle discussion from worries about people missing an announcement we
have a simple technical solution we can use instead.
I do agree that asking for help on this list is not appropriate.
That's what started all this. If only folks felt so inclined to
answer newsgroup questions in such volume...
We're deciding how we want to use the list, not how it was used by one
person.
Ed is correct that this goes to almost 1000 people (932 actually).
If it really doesn't apply to the community then lets not post it
here. But personally I fail to see any burden being placed on anyone.
I'd like to think I've seen everyone's point of view. Yes, answering
questions is helpful, yes discussions are nice, yes having more
discussions is more goodness good, and yes even the SVN thing was
relatively interesting, but no, I'd prefer it to be anywhere other
than a group where people are effectively forced to subscribe.
Surely that's not unreasonable? And please note that I intend to
subscribe to whatever that vehicle will turn out to be. It just seems
disrespectful to insist there ought to be a captive audience for
discussions. Maybe I'm being far too idealistic in my thinking. I'm
certainly setting myself up as a target for scorn, but so be it...
So you're saying, more or less, "I've evaluated everyone else's ideas
and I like mine best." ;)
As you are acutely aware, given your own community participation, being
a committer is accepting the responsibility of participating in the
community to at least a very minimal extent. Committers are also
required to subscribe to their respective project dev list. Does that
mean that if I ask a question on the dev list that a committer thinks is
uninteresting (not wrong, just uninteresting) that they should
unsubscribe? Where does responsibility as a committer begin? If it
doesn't at least take into account the needs of others in the community
then I think we all suffer. Keep in mind that only _committers_ can
post to this list. It's not a free-for-all end-user list.
I get many hundreds of emails a day and they get filtered into
appropriate folders where I can deal with them as needed. If I find
a whole thread I don't want to read I just remove the thread. Nearly
all modern email software handles this for you.
Apparently I'm odd in that I make sure that every note gets at least a
glance, usually within a few minutes... I don't like having unread
mail...
That's a personal choice, as I pointed out.
On the other hand I see a lot of discussion here that has happened
*nowhere* else.
It's been asked where are the bugzillas with the problem reports and
the feature requests?
Well the bugs weren't there before, either, were they? At least now
there has been *some* discussion. I think you would have to agree that
this is an improvement, if not 100% ideal.
Not on Planet, not on bugs, not on cross-projects-dev.
It did strike me that this subject would have been a perfect thing to
have discussed on cross projects, but the captive audience is
smaller. (It too has the release train project leads as a captive
audience.)
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.
In my opinion this community spends a lot of time working only at the
project level and not very much time sharing community-wide.
That's just human nature...
Isn't civilization itself the struggle against human nature? Ideally we
organize our solutions and tooling to optimize the desired outcome, not
the default state.
Planet is really the only other online place where everyone can come
together, and unfortunately discussions on blogs are not easily
tracked, shared, followed up on by most people.
It's also voluntary and to me covers a more diverse range of
interesting topics.
Well since there has been very little discussion on this list so far I
think that's pretty hard to judge is it not?
Planet posts tend to be ephemeral.
As opposed to mailing lists which we all like to visit again and again
because they're so interesting. :-P
I made that comment in all seriousness. I know that I often refer to
mailing list archives. At least Denis, Matt, Gabe, and Bjorn do this
often as well. I have several times wanted a blog post and had a much
harder time finding it.
This is long enough. I think we could argue little points ad nauseum
and I've made the important points I wanted to address.
Karl
