So let's create a new list, ensure all the committers are
subscribed and we can discuss issues of the day there. Hey, whatever
turns your crank. But it sounds a lot like this list.
We talked about the need to build a committer community at the
architecture council meetings. And we talked about using this list to do that.
It's disappointing to hear committers, especially ones who are on the
architecture council, wanting to opt out of that.
If we decide to throttle discussion here, we'll end up with
since opening a new mailing list will probably take a minute, why dont
somebody who wants to carry on with this discussion open a bugzilla entry and
the discussion can resume there. Then everyone who is interested can CC on
Am 05.10.2008 um 14:53 schrieb Ed Merks:
as committers we are all obligated to subscribe to this mailing list so that
important announcements or information that require, or would benefit from,
the attention of all committers can be disseminated with the expectation
that everyone who should receive them will receive them. Here's what
it says at https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-committers
This list is the formal mailing list for committers on Eclipse
projects. This list will be used by the Eclipse Foundation to communicate
items of specific interest to the committers such as project process,
Board representative elections, etc.
There are roughly a
minimum of 1000 people receiving any note send to this group. As such,
this list is not intended as a convenient mechanism for one person to
solicit help from 1000 other people, and worse yet, as a mechanism for 1000
people to observe such help being dispensed. I spend the better part
of every day helping people on the newsgroups. I poll for those notes
at my convenience and I do not generally appreciate pleas for helped being
pushed into my mailbox. Others have expressed similar concerns
already. I do not believe I have the option to unsubscribe from this
mailing list if the discussions generally turn out to be uninteresting,
unlike every other mailing list to which I can subscribe based on
interest. Sure I can send notes off into a folder that I general
ignore, or glance at once in a while, but that devalues the purpose of this
This entire thread started as a question about how to
install SVN, which to me is 100% off topic. It has turned into a
somewhat interesting discussion about the relative merits of CVS and SVN,
which isn't entirely off topic. But does it require the attention of
all 1000 comitters? A few have already expressed the opinion that it
does not, and still the notes continue. Counting this one, we're well
above 30; more traffic than we typically see over several
months. I understand that no one has ill intent and I understand
that some consider the suggestion to move the discussion to a more narrowly
focused mailing list to be some type of free-speech violation, but surely we
can all understand that the need to respect each another.
I agree with Eugene and Karl.
I always find that
attempts to throttle or regulate discussion (though well intentioned) are
always counter productive and unfortunately discourage valuable dialog.
Let the dialog run free. By now I'm pretty good at filtering
email at my end.
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Karl Matthias <karl.matthias@xxxxxxxxxxx>
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but
all projects have the ability to use either CVS or SVN at Eclipse as we
maintain both. Discussion about the advantages or disadvantages of
either *at Eclipse* are pretty important in my opinion, and they do
affect the entire community substantively. With the exception of
the very beginning of the discussion, I personally find it hard to find
fault with any of the comments made, and particularly not at the point
where you felt it was appropriate to cut off discussion. At that
very point Walter was informing a committer who clearly did not know
(and is definitely not the only one, I can tell you) about the IP
cleanliness policy. I'm not sure what could have been more
germane, even given your definition above.
Masterson, Michael P wrote:
I agree that this list should remain open to all
committers. My general
view on distribution lists is that
they should for the most part be one
way communicaions. There
are exceptions, for instance if there are some
questions/answers that should be seen by the entire
community. Or things like this where the community
at large could be
affected by its outcome.
When I'm on a list where a
particular discussion, not the whole list, but a particular thread loses
interest to me, I simply filter it. It takes practically no time
or effort to do it.
But when a discussion starts to de-evolve into a "I
think this", "Well I
think that" topic these emails start to lose
credibility and importance
to me. I think it would be nice if
such a thing starts to happen that
the originator or someone
involved in the discussion create a thread in
a message board and
provide a link so that only interested parties can
further. In fact, an originator's responsibility should be
consider whether the topic might warrant wide spread feedback
provide an offline forum in their
Well there will certainly be
cases where people post things that aren't quite right for the target of
the list. But as we grow as a community and the appropriateness of
certain discussions is made clear I expect that concern will diminish.
And we can always gently remind people of how we've decided to use
this list, once we've done that.
I really think that the majority of the emails I get
through this list
ARE important and warrant my attention. I
am interested in what other
projects are doing and in designer
news/tips regarding eclipse. I just
hope people treat such a
large distro with the respect it
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