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Re: [eclipse.org-committers] Installing SVN
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Hi Ed,
What tooling are you using? I have no problems tracking history of
renamed or moved files. Nor do I have such problems when I refactor
using Eclipse. Perhaps you need an upgrade? Try the latest version of
Subversive. When you upgrade, don't forget to include the "JDT ignore
extensions" feature that takes care of the problems with the .SVN
folders that you complain about.
Regarding atomic commits and batching. I have never done a batched
check-in using multiple comments so the lack of such a feature has never
been an issue for me. Using SVNKit I can check in several projects in
one single transaction and that's always been good enough. My guess is
that most people use one comment per commit and in my opinion its not
correct to argue that batching is a requirement for atomicity. SVN
certainly has atomic commits. If I check-in with SVN I can be 100%
certain that if it failed, nothing happened. That's rather important
when the network is sometimes unreliable.
The two main benefits of tracking directories are in my experience:
1. You can compare directories. Subversive will show a pane with files
that has been added, removed, or modified. Clicking on a modified file
will show you what changed in the file.
2. The revision of the directory reflects the last change made beneath
that directory. I.e. you can use the revision like you'd use a tag in CVS.
Perhaps the Subversive folder comparison has an issue with svn:ignore.
I've never encountered that problem. I'd suggest you bring it up with
the subversive people.
Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
Ed Willink wrote:
You win some and you loose some. SVN has atomic commits. It
might seem
like a trivial feature for those who rarely experience
network problems
but for us who do on a somewhat regular basis, it's very
valuable. SVN
can also revision directories as well as files. Very hard to do if
you're using a file system. SVN doesn't loose track of history just
because you move or rename a file. All of those features are
contributed
to the fact that SVN uses a database and hence, isn't subject
to all the
limitations you have in a file system. Revisioned data is
after all not
files. It is fragmented pieces of information. The CVS model is IMHO
severely limited.
A good summary of why SVN should be better. Unfortunately SVN or
at least its tooling just doesn't work.
An atomic commit requires that I can batch up numerous different
commit candidates with distinct commit comments. I can't; the tooling
requires a separate commit per comment.
I know of no benefit from revisioning directories, but suffer numerous
pains when directories have outgoing changes (e.g. svn:ignore) while
their contents have incoming changes. The default Subversive connector
doesn't support folder comparison to try to understand the problem.
I have yet to see SVN track a rename. A Windows Explorer move or copy
is treated as delete+create. An Eclipse refactor is similarly delete+create.
And if you want a bit of fun, try cleaning up the bin trees after JDT has
copied the .SVN folders! OK, maybe one day I'll learn to switch off
auto-build in a new workspace before I do check outs.
Until the tooling works, SVN causes much more pain than joy I'm afraid.
The CVS tooling is just too smooth to move on.
Regards
Ed Willink
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