Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Eclipse vs Vi vs Sublime

[Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Max Rydahl Andersen" <manderse@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "eclipse.org-architecture-council" <eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 March, 2016 10:47:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Eclipse vs Vi vs Sublime
> 
> On 16 Mar 2016, at 9:38, Mickael Istria wrote:
> 
> > On 03/16/2016 09:04 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
> >> I think you'll be surprised how that simple thing keeps people going
> >> back to emacs/vi because it is easily accessible.
> > I'm not surprised at all, and I('ll) keep using vim for this reason.
> > But is it really a challenge where Eclipse IDE can succeed?
> >
> > vim and Emacs are popular on Linux, used widely because they are in
> > the PATH and accessible easily via yum, apt-get, you-name-it. So one
> > can type "vim file.txt" in a console and get immediately vim installed
> > and opening the "file.txt". What is it for Eclipse IDE?
> 
> Exactly the same is today supposed to work if you put eclipse into your
> path.

You're missing the part that the OS will put it there for you when using vim/emacs on any distro. Will work for Eclipse on Fedora and most probably Mageia. For all other cases - user has to download, unzip/untar and put on the path himself.

> 
> > Does Oomph installer make it available in the path? Which Linux
> > distros package Eclipse IDE correctly enough to have a recent version
> > of Eclipse installed on command-line invocation (only Fedora I'd say)?
> 
> This is something eclipse itself could do. 

It could but this would be significant effort that require desktops that properly handle XDG, handling conflicts between multiple versions in the user home directory. Most probably shipping Eclipse as xdg-app is best although the sandboxing model might be a problem (to be determined when one tries it actually). I would dare to say this is significantly bigger effort than getting eclipse properly shipped by the bigger distros.

> 
> > For Windows users, they often get to Notepad++ because it's available
> > on right-click (here again, it's an OS thing given by the installer).
> > Does Eclipse IDE populate that accessible menu?
> 
> Yes it does if you choose it as the app to use.

Again at the price of manually navigating to the eclipse executable, which proper package can create automatically. It's much like one saying - yeah, you can have whatever IDE you want just download eclipse platform and used p2 to install whatever you need - doable and not hard, but definitely not user friendly.


Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse team

> 
> > If we want the same level of accessibility, the first step isn't to
> > improve the IDE, it's to integrate it better with the OS: make it part
> > of the PATH and make it populate the OS "Open With" menus.
> 
> You are doing step 2 now. Step 1 is to make it work - and I claim it is
> 99% there.
> 
> > That said, I'd like to repeat that I'm all in favor of improving the
> > workflow of opening a single file with the IDE, it's just that I have
> > the impression that the cornerstone of this use-case is integration in
> > the various OS (tricky thing) rather than improvements inside the IDE
> > itself.
> 
> It is not a tricky thing once eclipse actually behaves sanely when it is
> in path and on the app.
> 
> It is something you can do from within eclipse, just like your web
> browser checks if it is the default browser or what aquamacs does to
> check it installs a cli launcher.
> 
> /max
> http://about.me/maxandersen
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