| Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Eclipse vs Vi vs Sublime |
On 15 Mar 2016, at 18:44, Nick Boldt wrote:
+1 to the ability to invoke Eclipse (or a product based on Eclipse) with
commandline args including file(s) to open.
Guess what - eclipse have had that feature default enabled for 3-4 years.
Just try it!
Unfortunately it has issues on some OS and relative paths.
But it is actually supposed to just work and use already open eclipse if you do it a second time.
If it fails for you open a bug.
Or a project, which Eclipse
would either import automatically or simply open if already in the
workspace.
Yes, I think it would be great eclipse would automatically use our smart/easy import on "eclipse <dirname>"
Sublime can also be invoked to open a folder and you can then navigate the
source files in that folder via a tree. Very handy, for example, when
hacking a pair of composite*.xml files.On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Jay Jay Billings jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx
wrote:On a more technical arc, I've used Sublime, Vi, tried to use Che and of
course I use Eclipse. Sublime and Vi seem so small and lightweight, but
they don't have all the tooling I need. Still, I can use them by doingvi testFunc.f90
and I can hit some hotkeys for autocompletion if I'm lucky. My code is
highlighted so I can figure out what is going on. Building is a short set
of keystrokes more than Ctrl+B, but still easy enough.What if I had an Eclipse IDE that was that easy to use? Suppose I download
PTP so I can handle Fortran files (or whatever is appropriate), then I just
goeclipse testFunc.f90
All of a sudden, say a second or two, I see my code and I could start
editing. At the very least I will stare at it and start thinking. Most
likely I'm going to find a cup of coffee or check the clock for a bit
before I start hacking, which gives a background thread pool time to do
things like discover the .project file, load the rest of the workspace,
start the tooling and boot up the rest of the plugins. On the look and feel
side, hide everything. The project explorer and other views could all
auto-hide, so when I boot up I see exactly what I want. The "Toolbar of
Every Imaginable Button" could auto-hide too. Maybe the file menu stays and
little symbols on the side show them what is hiding, but the point is their
code.If I just typed
eclipse .
could the welcome page show me useful things like
"Open a file..."
"Run build..."if no previous state was saved?
This is a kind of Partial Eclipse (hehe, little astrophysics joke
there...) that focuses squarely on development. It could be toggled by a
setting or offered as a completely separate download, but either way it
addresses the fundamental question of people flocking to Sublime and Vi:
"Will you stop standing between my code and I please?" It's a coder and
their code, not one cloud platform to rule them all and not a workbench
that can sometimes take more time to get going than I actually need to fix
the bug.Just some thoughts I've had for the past year or so.
Jay
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Doug Schaefer cdtdoug@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Wayne Beaton wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
We refocused. EclipseCon 2016 had more tracks than previous years and
the programme committee certainly pumped up the desktop IDE content. This
is a trend that I believe we'll continue.I'll admit that there are subtleties in marketing that I don't
understand. Harmful is in the eye of the beholder.I believe it was Ed who pointed out that there are people in the
community, on the newcomers list, who were confused about the messaging,
about whether they should be abandoning the Eclipse IDE for Che. I think we
concluded at the meeting that that was harmful.Wayne
On 15/03/16 12:47 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
Clearly, we have a perception problem.
Indeed
I'm not convinced that the data supports your position: there was
plenty
of content at EclipseCon focused on the desktop IDE and related
projects.
Including two of my talks and at least one of the keynotes.
It’s not my position. I am conveying what I heard from the marketing
department when I asked why Oracle wasn’t sponsoring this year’s
EclipseCon. At dev level, I can tell you that many here have given up on
submitting talk proposals because talks focused on traditional desktop IDE
areas have not been getting accepted in the last few years.The "next generation" messaging is not coming from the Eclipse
Foundation,
it's coming from the Che project. I understand that this distinction
may be lost
on the greater community.
Are you saying that Eclipse Foundation is not able to exert influence
over a member project to stop this harmful messaging?Thanks,
- Konstantin
*From: *Wayne Beaton wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Sent: *Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:35 AM
*To: *Konstantin Komissarchik konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx;
eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject: *Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting?All of our efforts around FEEP are concerned with putting energy into
the desktop IDE. Moving Mikael into the development position is also
concerned exclusively with the desktop IDE. The Eclipse Foundation has
never employed developers before. Our first development effort contracts
and hire are exclusively concerned with addressing long standing issues
with the desktop IDE. Clearly, we have a perception problem.I'm not convinced that the data supports your position: there was plenty
of content at EclipseCon focused on the desktop IDE and related projects.
Including two of my talks and at least one of the keynotes.The "next generation" messaging is not coming from the Eclipse
Foundation, it's coming from the Che project. I understand that this
distinction may be lost on the greater community.Again, we have an opportunity with the press attention on Che to steal
some of that attention for the desktop IDE. What are we going to do about
it?Wayne
On 15/03/16 12:24 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
I see Che’s messaging as a serious issue. To a lay person, the fact that
this message is coming from an Eclipse Foundation project lends it
authority. Many wouldn’t understand that this is just another project
trying something new rather than the official path forward endorsed by the
community bringing them the current Eclipse IDE.More broadly, it seems to me that Eclipse Foundation is focusing
primarily on new initiatives outside of desktop IDE space these days.
Oracle’s marketing department did not sponsor this past EclipseCon because
the content has been less and less relevant to desktop IDE space, which is
our main reason for involvement.Thanks,
- Konstantin
*From: *Wayne Beaton wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Sent: *Tuesday, March 15, 2016 8:32 AM
*To: *eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject: *Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting?Che is giving us some visibility. How do we leverage this? How do we
encourage people who are looking at Che to maybe give the desktop IDE a
fresh look?Wayne
On 15/03/16 05:12 AM, Eike Stepper wrote:
Am 14.03.2016 um 21:03 schrieb Doug Schaefer:
Oh, and our discussion on Che and the impact calling it the "Next
Generation Eclipse IDE" has on the existing IDE and community was really
good too :).So can we do something to make the situation better for us?
I googled
https://www.google.de/search?q=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&oq=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
and they seem to like this term a lot ;-(Cheers
/Eike
http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper
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Wayne Beaton
@waynebeaton
The Eclipse Foundation
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Wayne Beaton
@waynebeaton
The Eclipse Foundation
[image: EclipseCon NA 2016] http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015
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Jay Jay Billings
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
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Nick Boldt :: Productization Lead :: JBoss Tools & Dev Studio :: Red Hat,
Inc.
http://nick.divbyzero.com
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