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Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
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+1 for keeping Equinox as sub-project for the trademark.
+1 for fast tracking Eclipse TLP committers.
Alex
On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Thomas Watson <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Yes, this is a good point. Perhaps we can fast track any platform
> committers that want commit access to Equinox once it is a sub project of
> Eclipse.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Daniel Megert" <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Date: Sun, Jun 25, 2017 10:10 AM
>
> Thanks Mike
>
> That's another good point to keep it as (sub-) project in the PMI.
>
> Dani
>
>
>
> From: Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 24.06.2017 11:14
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
> I would like to point out one other factor in this conversation: trademarks.
> Equinox is a well known name in the industry. Our default trademark policy
> is that we reserve project names as trademarks. If Equinox is no longer a
> project, we should do something special to continue to protect the brand.
>
> This may apply to JDT and others as well, but I would have to think about
> that a little more.
>
> Mike Milinkovich
> mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> (m) +1.613.220.3223
> Please note new email address.
>
> On Jun 24, 2017, at 4:23 AM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> After sleeping over it, I'm not that sure anymore. Keeping it at the same
> level as Platform, JDT and PDE might be better, especially if we want to
> manage the Equinox releases in the PMI.
>
> Dani
>
>
>
> From: "Thomas Watson" <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 23.06.2017 20:36
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> That makes sense to me.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Daniel Megert" <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2017 10:31 AM
>
> A Bugzilla Product does not have to match a project. I would add "Equinox"
> as product under Eclipse and just move over all components.
>
> Dani
>
>
>
> From: "Thomas Watson" <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 23.06.2017 17:01
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> The major thing needed is to be able to publish individual artifacts as
> released to maven central and be able to do that at a fine grained level.
> Equinox as many artifacts that can be consumed individually and our
> consumers would most like to consume them from maven central.
>
> Perhaps the most simple way to do that now is to do the full build like we
> do today for the I-Build but only selectively publish to maven central the
> artifacts that should be included in a release?
>
> Anyway, all these types of problems would need to be addressed in similar
> ways regardless of where the Equinox bundles reside. I just wanted to be
> sure merging Equinox into Platform did not inhibit our ability to accomplish
> this. My other concern is around things like bugzilla components. In
> equinox we have these bugzilla components that I would like to move over:
>
> Compendium
> Components
> Framework
> Launcher
> p2
> Security
> Server-Side
> Weaving
>
> Will these fit well under the Platform product?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ----- Original message -----
> From: Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2017 9:22 AM
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>> Hi Tom
>>
>> Yes, the idea would be to merge it into Platform since Equinox is also
>> weak
>> on committers.
>>
>> The question regarding the releases is a good one. I've added Wayne to
>> comment on that. Technically it is for sure not a problem as the Platform
>> does the Equinox builds already. So, maybe we can do "Platform" releases
>> that just contain Equinox.
>
> Having more/faster Platform releases would help a lot IMHO. Even if
> it's for few bugfixes or one new feature it's worth getting it to
> users ASAP. But this is whole different discussion I would say.
> Tom, one thing to think about more/faster Equinox releases is the
> releng work as it is still not trivial enough to release the whole
> platform and equinox doesn't have standalone procedure for now. I
> would love to get the former being a no brainer but the later might be
> easier to achieve if someone spends time on it.
>
> Alex
>
>>
>> Dani
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Thomas Watson" <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: 23.06.2017 15:45
>>
>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> What is the proposal for Equinox in this new structure? I was under the
>> impression that Equinox would sit beside Platform, PDE, JDT as its own sub
>> project. Would Equinox instead be merged into Platform?
>>
>> One concern I have with that is our ability to do much more fine grained
>> releases of individual artifacts (bundles). Other open source projects I
>> am
>> involved in do releases of their individual artifacts on demand instead of
>> packaging them all together into one big coordinated release. I would
>> love
>> to move Equinox to such a model so we can iterate releases of individual
>> bundles as needed. I don't have any firm idea on how to accomplish that
>> right now, but would merging Equinox into Platform inhibit our ability to
>> move in that direction?
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original message -----
>> From: "Daniel Megert" <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>> Date: Fri, Jun 23, 2017 3:53 AM
>>
>> Thanks everyone for the feedback on this topic. Some good additional
>> arguments came up, and the vote is clearly to merge projects. As long as
>> we
>> keep the current responsibilities via owner or component lead concept
>> (TBD),
>> I'm also ready to merge. I'd like to keep the Platform separate from PDE
>> and
>> JDE though. Since PDE is already one project, I would merge the JDT
>> sub-projects into JDT. That would give us Platform, JDT and PDE.
>>
>> I suggest we discuss the details in our next Tuesday's PMC call.
>>
>> Dani
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Mike Wilson" <Mike_Wilson@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: 22.06.2017 19:34
>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>> it will most likely not help to bring in committers that can fix real
>>> bugs...
>>>
>> Maybe. But even if I believe that, I also believe that it makes it easier
>> for people to get to the point where they can fix real bugs.
>>
>> McQ.
>>
>> "Daniel Megert" ---2017/06/22 06:25:17---I neither wanted to use SWT as
>> the
>> argument nor say that doing general / basic fixes across sub-pro
>>
>> From: "Daniel Megert" <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: 2017/06/22 06:25
>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> I neither wanted to use SWT as the argument nor say that doing general /
>> basic fixes across sub-projects aren't good.
>>
>> My main point is that it will most likely not help to bring in committers
>> that can fix real bugs, be it in SWT, Resources, Debug or any other
>> sub-project.
>>
>> Dani
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: 22.06.2017 12:15
>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov
>> <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Yes, that can help contributors who do general / basic fixes in several
>>>> sub-projects, but I challenge that we will get e.g. a new committer that
>>>> can
>>>> fix real SWT bugs.
>>>
>>> This could be true. But in no means it should prevent getting people
>>> to fix team/ui/debug/ant...
>>> It's a real strawman argument to use the non likely SWT committer
>>> coming as an excuse to not merge.
>>
>> Further more - it's quite likely that new people will fix/improve
>> snippets and/or tests and this still requires being SWT committer to
>> push but doesn't require special knowledge about any WS.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dani
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Date: 22.06.2017 11:43
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>>>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Resending the message regarding the fast track to get commit rights and
>>>>> encourage committers to use it, will show us whether committers really
>>>>> want
>>>>> to get the additional power and also responsibility to work on a
>>>>> component
>>>>> that they have no clue about. If that number is high, I'd be more
>>>>> encouraged
>>>>> for a merge
>>>>
>>>> IMHO merging the platform project is primarily about making it easier
>>>> to get new committer on board. At the moment is really hard for new
>>>> people to gather enough commits (in one of our sub-projects) to get
>>>> commit rights. Merging the projects would make that easier.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Lars
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Megert
>>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> It worked pretty well with regards to planning and triage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dani
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Date: 21.06.2017 19:24
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>>>>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Daniel Megert
>>>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm still +1 for merging all platform projects together with Equinox
>>>>>>> into one platform project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All current leads should become co-leads for the new project, as we
>>>>>>> discussed earlier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But how do you think the planning, sign-off, bug triage etc. works?
>>>>>> Currently we can hold specific people accountable which got nominated
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> their peer committers. We would have to build a system/copy similar to
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> we have now, otherwise it won't be manageable.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, I would question how much it is working now esp. in regards of
>>>>> planning and triaging. The sign-off is done by someone that's hold
>>>>> accountable.
>>>>> Please look at
>>>>> https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/blob/master/MAINTAINERS
>>>>> . We can come up with simplified way of this one and having Global
>>>>> reviewers, OS/Port maintainers, and subsystems (one can even claim
>>>>> specific maintainer for given bundle). And this is flexible and can be
>>>>> changed by us on the go as it fits without going through the
>>>>> bureacratics we are talking about now. If there is a will there is a
>>>>> way :). Note that there is even "Write After Approval" group - these
>>>>> people have write access but act accordingly and wait for their
>>>>> reviews - I seriously believe that Eclipse committers are responsible
>>>>> enough to be able to adhere to rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dani
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Date: 21.06.2017 17:05
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project
>>>>>> Merege
>>>>>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Dani,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still +1 for merging all platform projects together with Equinox
>>>>>> into one platform project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All current leads should become co-leads for the new project, as we
>>>>>> discussed earlier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For PDE and JDT I have no strong feelings, IMHO we could leave them as
>>>>>> separate projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe we could merge JDT core and JDT UI, there seems to be very
>>>>>> little activity in JDT UI at the moment. Again, I have no strong
>>>>>> feeling here, just a suggestion to simplify the setup in JDT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards, Lars
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Daniel Megert
>>>>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Eclipse PMC Colleagues
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After thinking about this more and talking to my team I still have
>>>>>>> strong
>>>>>>> concerns to do that move. Here are some of them:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - All current (sub-) projects will be archived i.e. we and the
>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>> won't be able to find and learn about e.g. JDT in the PMI.
>>>>>>> - There will only be one project with all committers. We would have
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> copy/replicate all the details that we currently have in the
>>>>>>> sub-projects
>>>>>>> into that super project to keep users informed.
>>>>>>> - Which people will lead that super project? One person can't do
>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>> existing leads become co-leads? That would mean many leads and the
>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>> charter does not define the role of a main/super (co-) lead.
>>>>>>> - Do we introduce the concept of components, i.e. do we replicate
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> currently get by the PMI but not based on an official project
>>>>>>> charter?
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> so, we would have to define that and create web pages that show the
>>>>>>> components and (co-) leads. Basically replicate what we currently
>>>>>>> have,
>>>>>>> except for the commit rights.
>>>>>>> - My team was very unhappy when I informed them about this potential
>>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>> Putting code that's related to Platform UI together is one thing, but
>>>>>>> opening up SWT, JDT and PDE to everyone caused very scary feelings
>>>>>>> (also
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> me to be honest).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to ask the PMC to reconsider this decision for now and
>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>> resend the message that the PMC encourages a fast track for existing
>>>>>>> committers to become a committer on another project
>>>>>>> (https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/msg10305.html).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Dani
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
>>>>>>> unsubscribe
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> this list, visit
>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
>>>>>> CEO vogella GmbH
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
>>>>>> Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
>>>>>> USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
>>>>>> Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web:
>>>>>> http://www.vogella.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
>>>>>> unsubscribe
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> this list, visit
>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
>>>>>> unsubscribe
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> this list, visit
>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Alexander Kurtakov
>>>>> Red Hat Eclipse Team
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>>>> from
>>>>> this list, visit
>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>>>> from
>>>>> this list, visit
>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
>>>> CEO vogella GmbH
>>>>
>>>> Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
>>>> Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
>>>> Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
>>>> USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
>>>> Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web:
>>>> http://www.vogella.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>>> from
>>>> this list, visit
>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>>> from
>>>> this list, visit
>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alexander Kurtakov
>>> Red Hat Eclipse Team
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexander Kurtakov
>> Red Hat Eclipse Team
>> _______________________________________________
>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>> from
>> this list, visit
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>> from
>> this list, visit
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>
>> [attachment "graycol.gif" deleted by Daniel Megert/Zurich/IBM]
>> _______________________________________________
>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>> from
>> this list, visit
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>> from
>> this list, visit
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>> from
>> this list, visit
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>> from
>> this list, visit
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>
>
>
> --
> Alexander Kurtakov
> Red Hat Eclipse Team
> _______________________________________________
> eclipse-pmc mailing list
> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from
> this list, visit
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from
> this list, visit
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> eclipse-pmc mailing list
> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from
> this list, visit
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from
> this list, visit
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> eclipse-pmc mailing list
> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from
> this list, visit
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc_______________________________________________
> eclipse-pmc mailing list
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from
> this list, visit
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>
>
>
>
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--
Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse Team
