| Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege |
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Daniel Megert+1 - glad that we have an agreement :
<daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the feedback on this topic. Some good additional
> arguments came up, and the vote is clearly to merge projects. As long as we
> keep the current responsibilities via owner or component lead concept (TBD),
> I'm also ready to merge. I'd like to keep the Platform separate from PDE and
> JDE though. Since PDE is already one project, I would merge the JDT
> sub-projects into JDT. That would give us Platform, JDT and PDE.
>
> I suggest we discuss the details in our next Tuesday's PMC call.
>
> Dani
>
>
>
> From: "Mike Wilson" <Mike_Wilson@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 22.06.2017 19:34
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@eclipse.org
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>> it will most likely not help to bring in committers that can fix real
>> bugs...
>>
> Maybe. But even if I believe that, I also believe that it makes it easier
> for people to get to the point where they can fix real bugs.
>
> McQ.
>
> "Daniel Megert" ---2017/06/22 06:25:17---I neither wanted to use SWT as the
> argument nor say that doing general / basic fixes across sub-pro
>
> From: "Daniel Megert" <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 2017/06/22 06:25
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@eclipse.org
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> I neither wanted to use SWT as the argument nor say that doing general /
> basic fixes across sub-projects aren't good.
>
> My main point is that it will most likely not help to bring in committers
> that can fix real bugs, be it in SWT, Resources, Debug or any other
> sub-project.
>
> Dani
>
>
>
> From: Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 22.06.2017 12:15
>
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@eclipse.org
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov
> <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>> Yes, that can help contributors who do general / basic fixes in several
>>> sub-projects, but I challenge that we will get e.g. a new committer that
>>> can
>>> fix real SWT bugs.
>>
>> This could be true. But in no means it should prevent getting people
>> to fix team/ui/debug/ant...
>> It's a real strawman argument to use the non likely SWT committer
>> coming as an excuse to not merge.
>
> Further more - it's quite likely that new people will fix/improve
> snippets and/or tests and this still requires being SWT committer to
> push but doesn't require special knowledge about any WS.
>
> Alex
>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>>
>>> Dani
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Date: 22.06.2017 11:43
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@eclipse.org
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Resending the message regarding the fast track to get commit rights and
>>>> encourage committers to use it, will show us whether committers really
>>>> want
>>>> to get the additional power and also responsibility to work on a
>>>> component
>>>> that they have no clue about. If that number is high, I'd be more
>>>> encouraged
>>>> for a merge
>>>
>>> IMHO merging the platform project is primarily about making it easier
>>> to get new committer on board. At the moment is really hard for new
>>> people to gather enough commits (in one of our sub-projects) to get
>>> commit rights. Merging the projects would make that easier.
>>>
>>> Best regards, Lars
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Megert
>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> It worked pretty well with regards to planning and triage.
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dani
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Date: 21.06.2017 19:24
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>>>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@eclipse.org
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Daniel Megert
>>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm still +1 for merging all platform projects together with Equinox
>>>>>> into one platform project.
>>>>>
>>>>>> All current leads should become co-leads for the new project, as we
>>>>>> discussed earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>> But how do you think the planning, sign-off, bug triage etc. works?
>>>>> Currently we can hold specific people accountable which got nominated
>>>>> by
>>>>> their peer committers. We would have to build a system/copy similar to
>>>>> what
>>>>> we have now, otherwise it won't be manageable.
>>>>
>>>> First, I would question how much it is working now esp. in regards of
>>>> planning and triaging. The sign-off is done by someone that's hold
>>>> accountable.
>>>> Please look at https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/blob/master/MAINTAINERS
>>>> . We can come up with simplified way of this one and having Global
>>>> reviewers, OS/Port maintainers, and subsystems (one can even claim
>>>> specific maintainer for given bundle). And this is flexible and can be
>>>> changed by us on the go as it fits without going through the
>>>> bureacratics we are talking about now. If there is a will there is a
>>>> way :). Note that there is even "Write After Approval" group - these
>>>> people have write access but act accordingly and wait for their
>>>> reviews - I seriously believe that Eclipse committers are responsible
>>>> enough to be able to adhere to rules.
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dani
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Date: 21.06.2017 17:05
>>>>> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>>>>> Sent by: eclipse-pmc-bounces@eclipse.org
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dani,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still +1 for merging all platform projects together with Equinox
>>>>> into one platform project.
>>>>>
>>>>> All current leads should become co-leads for the new project, as we
>>>>> discussed earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>> For PDE and JDT I have no strong feelings, IMHO we could leave them as
>>>>> separate projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we could merge JDT core and JDT UI, there seems to be very
>>>>> little activity in JDT UI at the moment. Again, I have no strong
>>>>> feeling here, just a suggestion to simplify the setup in JDT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards, Lars
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Daniel Megert
>>>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Eclipse PMC Colleagues
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After thinking about this more and talking to my team I still have
>>>>>> strong
>>>>>> concerns to do that move. Here are some of them:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - All current (sub-) projects will be archived i.e. we and the
>>>>>> community
>>>>>> won't be able to find and learn about e.g. JDT in the PMI.
>>>>>> - There will only be one project with all committers. We would have to
>>>>>> copy/replicate all the details that we currently have in the
>>>>>> sub-projects
>>>>>> into that super project to keep users informed.
>>>>>> - Which people will lead that super project? One person can't do that.
>>>>>> Will
>>>>>> existing leads become co-leads? That would mean many leads and the
>>>>>> project
>>>>>> charter does not define the role of a main/super (co-) lead.
>>>>>> - Do we introduce the concept of components, i.e. do we replicate what
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> currently get by the PMI but not based on an official project charter?
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> so, we would have to define that and create web pages that show the
>>>>>> components and (co-) leads. Basically replicate what we currently
>>>>>> have,
>>>>>> except for the commit rights.
>>>>>> - My team was very unhappy when I informed them about this potential
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>> Putting code that's related to Platform UI together is one thing, but
>>>>>> opening up SWT, JDT and PDE to everyone caused very scary feelings
>>>>>> (also
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> me to be honest).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to ask the PMC to reconsider this decision for now and
>>>>>> instead
>>>>>> resend the message that the PMC encourages a fast track for existing
>>>>>> committers to become a committer on another project
>>>>>> (https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/ ).msg10305.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Dani
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
>>>>> CEO vogella GmbH
>>>>>
>>>>> Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
>>>>> Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
>>>>> USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
>>>>> Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web:
>>>>> http://www.vogella.com
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexander Kurtakov
>>>> Red Hat Eclipse Team
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
>>> CEO vogella GmbH
>>>
>>> Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
>>> Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
>>> Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
>>> USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
>>> Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web:
>>> http://www.vogella.com
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexander Kurtakov
>> Red Hat Eclipse Team
>
>
>
> --
> Alexander Kurtakov
> Red Hat Eclipse Team
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> [attachment "graycol.gif" deleted by Daniel Megert/Zurich/IBM]
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--
Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse Team
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