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Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] Fw: Declarative UI roundup?
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Ed and Angelo,
a) I'd like us to see the biggest spectrum of available technologies
b) Ed is right I think we need a more strongly typed / constrainted
description language.
As I have understood TK-UI so far it uses XUL to described the UI so
Angelo has a constrainted description language it only misses an
Ecore-Description [1,2].
I don't want to sound like a lawyer but what is the license of XAML, is
it opensource at least it is controled by M$, right?
What I often thought about is that we could have a layered approach here:
XAML XUL MXML MySpecialML
| | | |
------------------------------
|
| Transform (XSLT, ....)
|
SwtXL => EMF-Modeled SWT-API
|
SWT-Application
This is the concept I currently have in mind for my UFaceKit-Project the
only thing I replace there is SWT through UFaceKit and SwtXL through
UFaceKitXL.
I've already tested this approach in a project I had named EXSWT the
only thing missig there was the Ecore-Model for EXSWT [3].
Tom
[1]http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/xul.html
[2]http://xulmaker.mozdev.org/xpath-evaluator/no_wrap/xul.xsd
[3]http://tom-eclipse-dev.blogspot.com/2007/06/im-perflexed.html
Ed Merks schrieb:
> Angelo,
>
> I was trying to find an XML Schema for XAML. Is there one? DOM is very
> unconstrained so building a DOM that's well-formed XAML seems important...
>
> Are you aware of http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/sldt/?
>
> It's interesting to see some of the Oslo developments. It makes you
> wonder if Microsoft will build a DSL for XAML. :-)
>
> http://channel9.msdn.com/tags/Oslo/
>
> XML continues to strike me as a poor man's excuse for human readable
> syntax that's primarily driven by a desire to avoid having to write
> lexers and parsers. It's great for interchange, but not so great for
> humans.
>
> Cheers,
> Ed
>
>
> Angelo zerr wrote:
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> The subject is very interesting but I believe that Eclipse E4 have
>> intention to use EMF.
>> I would like call about TK-UI for declarative UI but TK-UI use DOM and
>> it seems that people prefer EMF than DOM.
>>
>> I would like just say too, that I'm refactoring TK-UI to use UFace
>> <http://code.google.com/p/uface/>(where I'm contributing) which
>> propose this project to Eclipse
>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Incubator/UFacekit
>>
>> I think that UFace is very interesting for declarative UI because :
>>
>> * it provide universal API to render it to SWT, Swing, QT, GWT...
>> (UIElement )
>> * manage binding with JFace Databinding. So you can bind properties of
>> widget (visible, text...), layout properties (orientation, with...)
>> with anything. Into TK-UI it's easy to bind DOM element, attributes
>> with tje UIElement. Each properties (ex : setVisible) notify listeners.
>> * manage Databinding with UIForm. It's easy to manage master detail
>> and into TK-UI I'm using to manage Databinding Expression Language
>> (like XAML binding epression).
>>
>> Regards Angelo
>>
>>
>>
>> 2008/11/5 Kevin McGuire <Kevin_McGuire@xxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:Kevin_McGuire@xxxxxxxxxx>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks all who responded to my previous note. As we did for the
>> styling roundup, it'd be great if people could fill in a bit of
>> information about a proposed technology as prep for us all for a
>> call.
>>
>> At your earliest convenience, please take a moment to fill in an
>> entry in the following table:
>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/DeclarativeUI/Declarative_Construction_Roundup
>>
>>
>> You'll notice a striking resemblance to the styling one we did,
>> about midway down
>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/DeclarativeUI/Styling_Roundup.
>>
>> The idea here is that providing the information shouldn't be
>> laborious on the part of the presenter, but enough for everyone to
>> get started investigating. We'll then have a bakeoff call, post
>> slides and notes back to the wiki.
>>
>> We should aim to have the call in a few weeks.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Kevin
>>
>> ----- Forwarded by Kevin McGuire/Ottawa/IBM on 11/04/2008 06:16 PM
>> -----
>> *Kevin McGuire/Ottawa/IBM*
>>
>> 10/14/2008 05:49 PM
>>
>>
>> To
>> "E4 developer list"
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>> Declarative UI roundup?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi gang,
>>
>> As you may recall, in August we had a Styling roundup to look at
>> the different available skinning technologies. While organizing
>> it, we discussed also wanting to do one for declarative UIs.
>>
>> There was a lot of interest at the time, and there's been lots of
>> discussion on this list lately about different declarative UI
>> technologies/approaches. I think the Styling one went well so I
>> was wondering if folks wanted to do one for declarative UIs?
>> Seehttp://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/DeclarativeUI/Styling_Roundup
>> <http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/DeclarativeUI/Styling_Roundup> for an
>> idea.
>>
>> This would involve some people volunteering to do a short
>> presentation on a particular technology, either their own (e.g.
>> XSWT) or one they are familiar with (e.g. XUL). There'd be some
>> prep in putting a small amount of information on the e4 wiki, then
>> a call with presentations. The idea is to have some decent
>> content to discuss but not create a big presentation job for
>> folks, so the emphasis would be on short presentations (and also
>> out of the interest of keeping the call to say 1.5 hours which
>> will be a challenge I think).
>>
>> The goals of the call would include but not be limited to:
>>
>> 1) All getting on the "same page" with respect to the different
>> technology choices available to us.
>> 2) Open discussion of pros/cons of different approaches.
>> 3) What problems we believe it will solve in the e4 context.
>> 4) Hopefully come away with a small number of "most promising"
>> technologies which the community could focus on in e4.
>>
>> Any interest? Note that this is community driven content, so
>> "yes" would mean "yes I'll sign up to provide some content".
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kevin
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>>
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