Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...

[brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx]

Thanks Kevin & Ed! 

It's good to know I wasn't barking up
a wrong tree here. I just figured I should get this idea in the mix before
I lost the opportunity. :)

I've gone ahead and done all three of
your suggestions below and look forward to input from other project members
to see if we can come up with a good set of base requirements and start
scoping out some of the possibilities. 

Looking forward to working with you
guys!
--Fitz

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.

Kevin McGuire <Kevin_McGuire@xxxxxxxxxx>
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08/21/2008 01:30 PM

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Subject	Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] e4 beyond the ongoing        UI        conversations...

Brian, the UI work is grabbing the most "air time" because that
just happens to be what some people are working on.  Its only a small
slice of the e4 problem.   

E4 will focus on those aspects which the community wants to focus on.  I
think what you've brought up is important and agree with Ed is within scope:
 E4 is about a new platform, and connecting things together is something
a platform does (speaking quite generally).  So if you want to drive
this area, then welcome aboard! 

If this interests you, I'd suggest: 

1) You edit the proposal wiki to add this item to the scope http:- //wiki.eclipse.org/E4/Project_Proposal
2) You provide a blurb about what it means, either in the "Additional
Details" area but so far there's nothing there even for existing scope
items so maybe instead add a work area page like E4/ConnectionFrameworks
or some such. 
3) You add your name to the "Proposed Initial Committers" section

Note to all: We need to sort out the "Work Areas" page ... it
should really be like the work areas table in the summit (http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/Summit),
ie. a link to a wiki page and a list of people.  Specifically, we
just need to make it into a table and make the area names be links. 

Regards, 
Kevin

Ed Merks <ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx>
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08/21/2008 02:14 PM

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Subject	Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] e4 beyond the ongoing UI        conversations...

Brian,

Comments below.

brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
wrote: 

Hi all... 

Though I appreciate all the great discussion going on around e4 and the
UI work being done (though most of it is beyond me, not being an HTML/CSS
guy, I do find it fascinating), I was wondering if there is room in e4
to focus on other parts of the Eclipse ecosystem as well.
There's room for any warm body who's willing to provide focus! 

One of the issues IMHO across some of the major Eclipse projects is the
issue of cross-project integration. This is especially evident (to me anyway)
in terms of connection frameworks. 
What?  Our projects aren't all seamlessly integrated and tested as
a working whole?  Oh yeah, we don't do that... 

The Eclipse ecosystem has many different types of "connection"
frameworks. The CVS (Eclipse Platform), Remote Systems Explorer (DSDP-TM),
Web (WTP), Communications (ECF), and Database Development (DTP) perspectives
all have their own server/system connection management user interfaces
and connection frameworks. WTP has been working with DTP to handle management
of database connections, which is great, but it's just the tip of the iceberg.
I'm glad EMF didn't provide one. :-P  Oh wait, maybe if I did and
everyone used it... 
 
Within e4, we have a chance to settle on a common framework for connection
management and its associated UI. This would not only help out the user
with a common look and feel across the Eclipse ecosystem for connecting
to various systems, but it would allow adopters and extenders to take advantage
of this common framework so they too would fit into the Eclipse-iverse
more seamlessly to their own users. 
Joking aside, that sounds like an excellent idea! 
 
The connection framework within DTP, though used primarily for JDBC database
connections at this point, has been used with great success in many other
ways by Sybase products to connect to file systems, application servers,
UDDI and LDAP repositories, and so on. I think it has great potential to
fill the need for a common connection framework in e4.

However, integrating will the other projects in Eclipse will be tricky
at best and require a great deal of collaboration from many interested
parties. 
Yes, there always seem to be issues with were to put these common things.
 Everyone is happy to depend on the platform, but generally seem to
avoid depending on other things if possible. 
 
Do others see this as a problem that could be addressed within the e4 timeframe?
Or am I way out of scope with this suggestion? 
I think you're way on target. 
 
Thanks 
--Fitz (aka Brian Fitzpatrick) 

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.

Jeff McAffer <jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
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08/21/2008 10:22 AM

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Subject	Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] Technical issues with the e4 CSS call        - feedback appreciated to evaluate Yugma

Chris and I tried out dimdim just for fun.  It was still ok but not
great.  I had some horrible echo I could not get rid of and the screen
sharing from the Mac did not really work.  Sharing from the PC was
ok but apparently the refreshes were slow.  So  not recommented.

It might also be interesting to press the foundation to supply GoToMeeting
rooms.  The cost is not too high.

If you are interested in this, please voice your support and justification
on 
  https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=244840

Jeff

Jeff McAffer wrote: 
dimdim.com is another option. its free for up to 20 people in a room.  I
used it a while ago and it was ok.  There is a new version that claims
to be much improved.  have not tried lately...

Jeff



Chris Aniszczyk wrote: 
Before we do this... is any member company that uses GotoMeeting or WebEx
willing to donate some time?

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Kevin McGuire <Kevin_McGuire@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote: 

Hi gang, 

It appeared that people were having a lot of technical problems with the
e4 CSS call.  This was the first time using Yugma and I'd appreciate
some feedback to understand if its worth trying to use in the future.  The
problems I saw: 

1) People showed up in the screen sharing but they never joined the conf
call.  There may have been confusion over which # to dial, the one
I sent out (my conf call #), or the one that Yugma sent out (presumably
some VOID service of theirs). 
2) People were connecting/disconnecting/connecting/ to the session.  It
seemed the connectivity was poor/unreliable? 
3) For reasons I am not clear on, some of the invitees who were to have
been given ability to share their screen were not.  I couldn't figure
a way of correcting that.  When sending the invites, you specify who
is in which category.  I would've given everyone screen sharing, but
I assumed it worked by email login ID matched against the invites which
doesn't work for sending to an entire mail list. 

Its a lot cheaper than WebEx (estimate was it was going to cost $300) but
there's no sense using it if the quality and reliabilit isn't there.

Thanks, 
Kevin
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-- 
Cheers,

~ Chris Aniszczyk

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