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Re: [eclipse-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release

Martin,

I just don't see how a name change will help address the issue people are raising.  We have a very  smart community that is very knowledgeable about Eclipse.  Regardless what we call it, this community will see this as being the 4.0 release of Eclipse.  No amount of marketing can change this.  

This is why I believe we need to focus on who and what people should do with Eclipse SDK 4.0.  We need to clearly articulate the major use cases that will be supported in this release. 
 

Sent from my BlackBerry.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:27:10 
To: General development mailing list of the Eclipse project.<eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [eclipse-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release

Hi Ian,

  > I just don't see how introducing a new name helps
  > clarify the situation.

Well I'm not a marketing expert, but in API Design there is a 
guideline which says "Names Matter". If I find myself writing
pages of docs to explain what something is or is not, there's
a good indication that I've not chosen the best name.

We seem to agree that this is all about setting expectations.
We've been considering changes of version number and addition
of qualifiers - why not also consider changing the name?

There is agreement that this is all about setting expectations,
and that much of the audience won't read any explanations we
give - so the name and the version do have a high impact.

  > This IS the next major release of the Eclipse SDK.
  > There is no escaping the fact.

Well historically that's right of course. But we also need
to consider (1) that the role of the Eclipse SDK has changed
since its inception - just consider the EPP packages, release
train and stack of technology on top of the Platform -,
and (2) that the label "SDK" is ambiguous in the context
of EclipseRT at least (is it tools+source+docs, or 
runtime+source+docs, or runtime+tools...). So I do think
there's a good case for re-considering the name.

As John has very clearly pointed out, the deliverables of 
the Eclipse Project today are a Platform + the essential
tools (JDT,PDE) to program that Platform. It's_not_ a 
product and not even an IDE (we want the IDE space to be
taken by the EPP packages). Perhaps just adding the 
qualifier "Platform" to the release name helps clarifying
this.

  > lot of people use the Eclipse SDK to build more than tools.

I think that "Tooling Platform" was meant to describe that
it contains Tools to build anything ... And not anything
to build tools. But I can see how the name could trigger
an association like yours, so perhaps we should just 
continue looking for names. And be open enough to consider
any change in (name + version + qualifiers). Here's my
personal favorites so far:

  - Eclipse Tooling Platform 4.0
  - Eclipse Platform SDK 4.0
  - Eclipse SDK 4.0 Developer Release
  - e4 1.0 SDK

I don't buy into "Early Adopter Release" or "Beta" because
like McQ I do consider this as a complete release -- the 
difference to the 3.6 release is really in Scope (a Platform
without the rest of the stack) and not in quality.

Thanks,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
direct +43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6

-----Original Message-----
From: eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Skerrett
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 1:12 AM
To: General development mailing list of the Eclipse project.
Subject: Re: [eclipse-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release

I just don't see how introducing a new name helps clarify the situation.
This IS the next major release of the Eclipse SDK.  There is no escaping
the fact.  I agree we need to set expectations but trying to change the
name will just confuse the situationn IMHO.

Btw, I would also point out that a lot of people use the Eclipse SDK to
build more than tools.  




Sent from my BlackBerry.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:14:26
To: General development mailing list of the Eclipse
project.<eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [eclipse-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release

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