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Re: [eclipse-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release

As mentioned before it is more than just tooling. Why not call it "Eclipse
SDK 4.0 beta" or "Eclipse SDK 4.0 tech preview"? Personally, I don't think
"beta" or "tech preview" sound negative and it would open the door for a
full 4.0 release (train) in 2011.

Dani

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  |Jeff McAffer <jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>                                                                                                             |
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  |"General development mailing list of the Eclipse project." <eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>                                                              |
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  |30.04.2010 02:36                                                                                                                                  |
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  |Re: [eclipse-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release                                                                                                     |
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       This is a platform - its primary business is not end user features
      but frameworks and infrastructure for others to build cool new
      products upon

       I realize the distinction between "Eclipse Project" and "Eclipse
      Foundation" is lost on most of the user community

These two statements essentially capture the problem. On the one hand we
talk lazily about "Eclipse 4.0" and mean the platform that, oh, happens to
be useful in and of itself (i.e., can be seen as a product).  On the other
the community does not really grok the finer points of Eclipse community
structure. So does not necessarily perceive that there would be a
difference.  Some 500,000+ people have found Eclipse Classic 3.5
interesting enough to download... Whether we want it to be a product or
not, many people think it is one.

So if what we are releasing is the platform and not a product then perhaps
we should position it as such.
Eclipse Tooling Platform 4.0
Presumably we would also have
Eclipse Rich Client Platform 4.0

This does not address Brian's big bang theory but perhaps we'll never
capture that with 4.* but rather with Indigo or Isaac. The big impact this
year will be for people building on the platform.

Jeff

On 2010-04-29, at 4:43 PM, John Arthorne wrote:


      I have a hard time with the "not exciting enough for end users to
      call it 4.0" argument. This is a platform - its primary business is
      not end user features but frameworks and infrastructure for others to
      build cool new products upon. The platform changes coming this summer
      are about the biggest you can ever expect to see coming into the
      platform at this point in its maturity curve. It includes a
      substantial rewrite of the UI and a completely new visual
      presentation that has been in the works for over two years. It
      includes EMF and a CSS-based widget rendering engine bundled into the
      RCP platform. If this isn't big enough to call it 4.0, then I suspect
      we'll be staying on 3.x release numbers forever. I expect the level
      of change between the 2010 and 2011 releases to be substantially
      smaller so calling next year's release 4.0 would make even less sense
      (since it will only contain one year's work rather than two or more
      that went into this year's release). I agree with Brian that the
      "thunderous release" will come in 2011 once a wider set of projects
      have adopted the technology and we have a simultaneous release based
      on it. However, that release will be an aggregate of many projects,
      and in Eclipse we attach version numbers to individual projects
      rather than the simultaneous release as a whole.

      To Brian, it may be a subtle distinction but we are not talking about
      "Eclipse 4.0". Eclipse is made up of 50+ projects, of which the
      platform is only one. So, "Eclipse 4.0" makes as much sense as
      "Apache 4.0", and calling it that will surely disappoint the 80%+ of
      end users who download something other than the "Eclipse Classic"
      download that our single project produces. I realize the distinction
      between "Eclipse Project" and "Eclipse Foundation" is lost on most of
      the user community but I'm not sure what we can do about that.

      John


                                                                           
 "Oberhuber, Martin" <                                                     
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 04/29/2010 03:50 PM                           project." <                 
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          Please respond to                                                
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       eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>                Project 4.0 Release         
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           





      I tend to agree with Brian:

      To end users, the visible benefits of the 4.0 release that we have
      in mind right now, are not really sufficient to call it 4.0.

      I'm not sure whether it's too late already to pull the brakes
      of our marketing machinery. But in my mind, what we're having
      this year is really

      1.) An "e4 1.0" release, providing a new and exciting base for
          RCP's, which is at an 1.0 maturity level.
      2.) An "Eclipse SDK 3.6 Newbase" that is Eclipse 3.6 on top of
          the new base, providing same functionality as 3.6 with
          improved visual appearance but also reduced performance
          and lack of 3rd party / addon integration.

      Native English speaking marketing champions should replace "Newbase"
      with a suitable qualifier that implies predicates such as "new,
      revamped, reloaded, cool, developer, exciting, ..."

      This message also explains why "3.6" and "3.6 Newbase" are
      released just 1 month after each other. In the end, no matter
      what we call it, it is what it is...

      Thanks,
      --
      Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
      direct +43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6

      -----Original Message-----
      From: eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
      [mailto:eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Brian de Alwis
      Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 10:54 PM
      To: General development mailing list of the Eclipse project.
      Subject: Re: [eclipse-dev] Re: [e4-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release

      On 28-Apr-2010, at 1:59 PM, Mike Wilson wrote:
      > Let's be absolutely clear about this: It is *not* a "preview" nor
      is
      it a "beta". This is a real release, which should satisfy the needs
      of
      anyone who was previously running Eclipse "classic".

      I'm confused.  To me, that implies that this release will be *the*
      4.0
      SDK, and that the July 2011 release train be shipping with 4.0.1 or
      something later.  If so, then see my comments below.  If this isn't
      going to be *the* 4.0 SDK, or rather if the real 4.0 will be released
      later, then I think this *should* be marked as a preview.

      On 28-Apr-2010, at 2:18 PM, Jeff McAffer wrote:
      > I'm not sure I understand the problems with "beta". [...]

      Me neither.  The Microsoft's Windows 7 beta was very popularly
      received.
      Apple seeds  several rounds of iPhoneOS betas to its developers.  It
      means that developers release their apps simultaneously, and it
      becomes
      a bigger deal.  Look at how Apple is handling iPhoneOS 4.0 - they're
      releasing betas now so that developers can be 4.0 ready and show off
      the
      new whizzy features.


      My $0.02: I think we should be maximizing the opportunity of "Eclipse
      4.0".  It shouldn't be used for a developers-only
      please-test-your-tools
      release.  e4 is very cool, especially for RCP apps; SFS looks nifty
      too.
      But let's be honest, most of the other components in Eclipse 4.0 will
      be
      the same in Helios.

      To my mind, "Eclipse 4.0" should be a thunderous release with tons of
      improvements, and should be revealed in July 2011.  The other
      projects
      will have digested the new release and will demonstrate the stunning
      features of Eclipse 4.0.  "4.0" should merit a big ecosystem-wide
      party.

      We should be looking to release e4 1.0. The messaging should be:
      plugin
      developers, move onto e4 R1.0 as this will be the foundation of the
      Eclipse 4.0 SDK.  If "e4 R1.0" isn't good enough, then this release
      should definitely be "Eclipse 4.0 Preview" or "Early Adopters".

      Brian._______________________________________________
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