Re: [eclipse-dev] Planning Meeting Notes - Nov 8, 2006

[Jeff McAffer <Jeff_McAffer@xxxxxxxxxx>]

WTP Squirrel is a fantastic idea!!  Please
cast your votes on 
        https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=163900

Jeff

p.s., Man, that just made my day...

David M Williams <david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx>
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11/08/2006 07:34 PM

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Subject	Re: [eclipse-dev] Planning Meeting Notes - Nov 8, 2006

I must say I take extreme objection to part of this thread ... there is
no way we in Web Tools are going to have a "Squirrel Release"
:) 

I am a bit more flexible on the rest, but lean towards preferring names
for releases ... I've always thought it was the general 
release, not the whole collection. 

I think the resistance to this is that some have all gotten used to the
release number "meaning something" ... but, it doesn't to us
technical folks .... well, it does, 
but something completely different than the time frame of the release.
The nice thing with names is that it's easy to describe that the Europa
release of WTP needs 
the Europa release of EMF and Eclipse, etc. Only the most technical people
need to know the numbers. 

I can see there'd be marketing concern if the street talk was "Have
you gotten your copy of Callisto yet"? 
But ... seems as long as we consistently said Eclipse, Europa Release it'd
clear. Of course .... we could discuss 
whether "Eclipse" means "the Platform" versus "all
Eclipse Projects" .... but, maybe we should settle versions first.
 :) 

Can't wait to read Ian's reasons ... but, should this be a cross-project
list discussion?

John Arthorne <John_Arthorne@xxxxxxxxxx>
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11/08/2006 06:20 PM

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Subject	Re: [eclipse-dev] Planning Meeting Notes - Nov 8, 2006

Well, the "Why Did We Not Use Numbers" slide in that deck is
a very good summary of the discussion we had and the problem with us using
numbers.  Now, Ian said "Europa" was the name of the event,
and you're suggesting it's the name of the set of all projects... which
is it?  If it's the name of the event, then it makes sense for us
to also use "Europa".  If it really is intended to mean
the name of the complete set of projects, then I understand why you don't
like this idea.  The problem with each project using a different name
for their releases is that nobody will be able to understand what they
all mean: Imagine Europa contained "Platform Tiger", Web Tools
Squirrel", and "Data Tools Zebra". That doesn't scale either...

John

Bjorn Freeman-Benson <bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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08/11/2006 01:37 PM

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Subject	Re: [eclipse-dev] Planning Meeting Notes - Nov 8, 2006

Mike, Ian, John, (and everyone else)
I don't know about branding, but it was very clear that the goal of names
for the simultaneous release was to avoid confusion between the individual
projects (who have numbers) and the collection of projects (had a name).
(See http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/2006/tools/TS-4311.pdf#page=47).

Putting the same name (Europa) on one version of one of the projects and
the collection seems to be inviting confusion - are we talking about the
project or the stack?

Mike Wilson wrote: 
This seems like an over-reaction to me. The current version of Mac OS X
isn't hurt by being known as "Tiger", nor is the current version
of Windows by being named "Vista". 

I think the tide in the industry right now *is* to name versions rather
than number them. It seems like an easy way for us to be "exciting
and current". 

In any case, putting a "3.3" on the splash screen for Europa
is going to seem fairly odd to any of the projects that aren't going out
under that number. I think we should fix this. 
To the splash screen point: an easy solution would be to have the Europa
download be a simple run-time with a splash screen that says "Europa"
and that the Eclipse SDK download (the big zip file that many/most people
are still downloading) have a splash screen that says "3.3".
This would, I think, cause less confusion.

- Bjorn

P.S. As for whether the Platform project wants to call its release "3.3"
or "Tiger" - I don't care - Ian probably does and probably has
good arguments, but as long as the name is not the same as the collection
name, it seems fine to me.

P.P.S. But I seem to be a magnet for controversy right now [1,2] so perhaps
I'm wrong about this too...

[1] http://wassim-melhem.blogspot.com/2006/11/questions-not-complaints.html
[2] http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.foundation/msg01291.html
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