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Re: [ecf-dev] debug popup window in XMPP

Hi,
Thank you for all the answers. I know yet that my idea is not an improvement and
so i think that is better if I search for another bug to fix it.

Roland

Zitat von Scott Lewis <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

> Hi Dann and all,
>
> As with everything ECF, with future releases can/could be many
> changes...e.g. we could move to not having a communications perspective
> at all (although getting agreement on integrating ECF/collaboration into
> other parts of Eclipse may prove challenging), and/or changing the UI
> behavior for message handling and other ideas...but there are two
> wrinkles for us:  1) the onus is necessarily on those that would like to
> see things different to make it so (i.e. create code contributions to
> implement desired changes) and 2) it's also necessary to show that 'your
> way' is an improvement...not just for your own usage (which is the
> natural first yardstick that people apply ui changes to)...but for
> *other* users as well (much harder to show in my experience).
>
> Also...just so it's clear...with matters UI I'm typically going to defer
> to other committers for final decisions/choices...as (like everyone
> else) I have opinions about UI designs/dominant use cases, etc...but do
> not consider it my specialty.
>
> Scott
>
> Dann Martens wrote:
> > Hi Remy,
> >
> > I've seen some reports of the 'Universal/Generic Notification API'
> > (with platform-specific notification visualization) flying around, and
> > that does sound very promising indeed. According to the bug trail,
> > there wasn't any plan to include this in 3.5 Galileo; if it is in the
> > 3.6 Helios plan, that might be a thing to consider for ECF in the
> > release train, as well.
> >
> > I would even go that far to suggest to remove the Communications
> > Perspective completely. Of course, my interpretation of the Eclipse
> > IDE's semantics is a personal one, but I struggle to see why I would
> > need to switch to a specific perspective to enjoy collaboration
> > features, while I'm programming in Java, or C++ for that matter.
> > Unless there is a work flow associated around a ECF-specific tool set,
> > which would warrant a particular set-up of views and other UI
> > components, it feels like an oddball perspective, merely serving as a
> > showcase of the bag of (fun) features ECF provides.
> >
> > With 'historical' and 'upside down' I merely wanted to state that a
> > lot of ECF UI code is indeed the result of the natural evolution of
> > the project. Although ECF has introduced a number of fascinating
> > concepts around collaboration and interaction, the UI-aspect of that
> > still needs some polishing, when considering usability.
> >
> > For now, I still use a separate Jabber client, running side-by-side
> > with my Eclipse IDE. If you consider Spark IM Client, by Ignite
> > Realtime, that means running two VMs on your machine. I'd look forward
> > to (help or) see that change in the future!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >  Dann
> >
> > Remy Suen wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:48 AM, Dann Martens<dann@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > IMHO, the Communications Perspective is at odds with what I expect
> >> > from any other Eclipse Perspective, in the sense that perspectives
> >> > have a 'vertical' aspect to them and communication itself a
> >> > 'horizontal' aspect.
> >>
> >> I think I understand what you're getting at here (though I could be
> >> completely off). I think the 'Communications' perspective is somewhat
> >> modeled after the 'Resource' perspective (though I don't know anyone
> >> that uses the OOTB 'Resource' perspective).
> >>
> >> > I would expect communications to be cross-
> >> > cutting, available in any perspective, as an added feature. Its
> >> > quite tedious to have to set up a connection, by having to switch to
> >> > a perspective, first.
> >>
> >> I can't find the exact reference at the moment but I believe there
> >> are guidelines that indicate that a project is not supposed to
> >> "taint" other perspectives by "randomly" contributing toolbar items.
> >> You should be able to customize your perspective (under the 'Window'
> >> menu or the 'Eclipse' menu on the Mac) to add those connection
> >> toolbar items to your perspective as you wish.
> >>
> >> http://aniszczyk.org/2007/10/12/stalked-by-a-button/
> >> http://wassim-melhem.blogspot.com/2008/08/crime-and-punishment.html
> >>
> >> I agree that I should be able to connect from any perspective, though
> >> I'm not sure who actually gets to make that decision.
> >>
> >> > I've been re-evaluating some of these issues with Galileo, and there
> >> > is a check-box 'Display ECF collaboration outside of the workbench'
> >> > which shows a modest Toaster Pop-up.
> >> > In terms of UX, a docked view appearing out of the blue prompted by
> >> > an incoming message feels like it violates a number of UI
> >> > principles, including Eclipse best-practices. That still happens
> >> > with the 'outside' option enabled. At best, that could be a very
> >> > specialized good-will option for those with a very specific use case.
> >> >
> >> > It feels as if the UX priorities are upside-down in ECF at the
> >> > moment. That's probably a historical thing, but I hope these issues
> >> > can be addressed in the future.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure I know what you're talking about though there's plenty
> >> of UI code that has gone untouched since even before the 1.0 release.
> >>
> >> > If you compare this to Mylyn approach: they have a great
> >> > implementation of Toaster Pop-ups to deal with this kind of
> >> > asynchronous communication. Overall, Mylyn does behave more
> >> > 'horizontal', as I would expect.
> >>
> >> You may be interested in:
> >> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=229823
> >> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=209911
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Remy
> >>
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