Skip to main content
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
RE: [e4-dev] TM and XWT 
> The differences between TM and XWT are due to different opinions about 
> what problem we are solving and hence the requirements of the 
> technology. Most seem to agree that we need declarative UI in e4, but 
> few are explicit about what that entails. I wish others, like the 
> Alcatel Lucents representative, could say something about what 
> characteristics the technology should have.

>From my point of view, declarative UI of e4 should be capable do everything
with existing frameworks in declarative way. XWT and TM address this issues
with different technology: one is XAML and another is EMF. XWT is designed
to map every programming class without re-implement them. TM needs to
develop the renderer for each. 

As I said, XWT's direct users are mainly SWT developers. TM are EMF
developers. So the architecture I image should be:


                     EMF Developer 
                           |
                           V
                      ---------
                      |  TM   |
    SWT Developer     ---------
          |               |
          V               V
  -------------------------------------
  |                XWT                | 
  ------------------------------------- 

I don't think TM can provide a solution for SWT developers without forcing
them to learn new UI APIs.   

Best regards
Yves YANG
-----Original Message-----
From: e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Hallvard Trætteberg
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:48 PM
To: E4 Project developer mailing list
Subject: Re: [e4-dev] TM and XWT

Boris Bokowski wrote:
> 
> A couple of comments:

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

> 1. We don't need to pick a "winner" or a "loser".
> 2. Fragmentation is not good, in the long term.

I think we at some point must choose which technology is prefered or 
endorsed, to avoid confusion. There was a question about this at the 
webinar, and I bet there will be questions at ESE, too (both XWT and TM 
talks were accepted). There's nothing preventing the "loser" from 
continuing the development in some other context. So there is really no 
loss as seen from the community, since both will be available, and 
that's what counts, isn't it?

The differences between TM and XWT are due to different opinions about 
what problem we are solving and hence the requirements of the 
technology. Most seem to agree that we need declarative UI in e4, but 
few are explicit about what that entails. I wish others, like the 
Alcatel Lucents representative, could say something about what 
characteristics the technology should have.

> 3. Real clients are more important than theoretical advantages of one 
> technology over the other. Based on my limited knowledge on who uses 
> which framework, Wazaabi seems to be ahead of both TM and XWT at this 
> point, but I'd love to be proven wrong...

As I mentioned in a previous post, I almost chose to work on Wazaabi, 
because it is based on the same idea and was there first. However, I 
wanted to understand the technical issues, so I started on TM instead. 
Then I contributed it to e4, to show the advantages of the approach of a 
live, EMF-based UI model. If Wazaabi had been contributed to e4 at that 
time, I probably would have supported it instead, since the 
characteristics of the technology (live and EMF-based) is more important 
than it being mine.

Perhaps a merge of Wazaabi and TM is the best approach, if Moïses is 
interested?

> 4. A few of the comments in this discussion came across as being 
> protective of your respective technology, and not as cooperative as I 
> would like them to be.

I'm sorry to hear that, but I understand that I seem so. I've really 
tried hard to avoid being/seeming protective. However, the approaches 
seem pretty incompatible, so I've never considered it realistic that we 
join forces. Instead, I've tried to provide reasons for my choice(s) 
that could be judged by others.

> Btw, there will be an e4 Symposium at Eclipse Summit Europe 
> (Ludwigsburg, Germany, October 27-29): 
> http://www.eclipsecon.org/summiteurope2009/sessions/sessions?id=981
> Hope to see you there!

I'm looking forward to it!

Hallvard

P.S. Good night, it's almost tomorrow here in GMT+2.
_______________________________________________
e4-dev mailing list
e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.58/2306 - Release Date: 08/16/09
06:09:00

Back to the top