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Re: [e4-dev] Introduction::UFace, PMF & Flowr
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Hi All,
first of all sorry for my late response, but I wanted to wait for Tom Herrmann's (flowR) opinion before responding. He just got back from his vacations last week. Since these guys work where I live (Dresden/Germany) I just visited them and they where updating me on what flowR is compared to its predecessor that I knew.
Apparently, flowR has moved away from UI modeling. It's all about team enabling application modeling and generation now. They've got a common UI interface enabling them to exchange the UI framework. Currently they're able to generate SWT applications. To support other UI frameworks one would need to contribute an oAW generator cartridge with a specific layout editor for the screen elements. So that's where UFace might fit in. Concerning PMF, flowR seems to be covering PMF pretty much and more. The initial flowR developers are looking for someone to carry on the development for internal company policy reasons, so there's your chance...
On behalf of the flowR team I'd like to invite you to Dresden for a meeting as they won't be able to get travel funding for open source developments from their employer. What do you think?
Cheers,
Rob
----- "Tom Schindl" <tom.schindl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Before EclipseCon is impossible for me.
>
> Tom
>
> Jim van Dam schrieb:
> > Olivier,
> >
> > Of course I completely agree with Amsterdam as the perfect place to
> meet ;-)
> > To be fair Olivier, if nobody else will come and it's just the two
> of us before EclipseCon we could meet halfway in Belgium.
> > Tom/Hallvard, are you able to come to Amsterdam for a weekend?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf Of Olivier Moïses
> >> Sent: dinsdag 10 februari 2009 14:38
> >> To: E4 Project developer mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [e4-dev] Introduction::UFace, PMF & Flowr
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Having a meeting together before EclipseCon sounds really good for
> me.
> >> Due to business constrainsts, I'd hugely prefer having this
> meeting
> >> during a weekend instead of usual working days (I know, everybody
> works
> >> also during the weekend !! :-) ).
> >> Regarding the meeting location, I suggest Amsterdam wich is easily
> >> reachable by plane, train, car, boat, etc...
> >>
> >> Olivier
> >>
> >> PS: Hallvard, I'd like to visit Norway, but for this I guess I
> need
> >> more
> >> than 1 or 2 days ;-)
> >>
> >> Jim van Dam a écrit :
> >>> Hi Hallvard/All,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> And Jim, Norway is a wonderful place to ski, although it is
> still a
> >> bit
> >>>>> early with short days. What kind of skiiing do you do, downhill
> or
> >> snowboard?
> >>> Downhill, but currently it is mostly son-to-son ( I have four
> sons
> >> aged 2-5-7-9).
> >>> In the past I visited Norway (Oslo and south coast) and liked it
> very
> >> much.
> >>> Does everyone have time to meet before EclipseCon and what week
> would
> >> be best?
> >>> For me week 9-12 is ok except March 3rd and 16th.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> >> On
> >>>> Behalf Of Hallvard Trætteberg
> >>>> Sent: maandag 9 februari 2009 22:08
> >>>> To: E4 Project developer mailing list
> >>>> Subject: Re: [e4-dev] Introduction::UFace, PMF & Flowr
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim van Dam wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Next week I'll be skiing (Switzerland not Austria, sorry Tom),
> but
> >>>>> after that I am willing to travel to any of the four countries
> or
> >>>>> welcome you in the Netherlands before EclipseCon to get things
> >> kicked
> >>>> off.
> >>>>
> >>>> I will not be able to go to EclipseCon, but I would be very happy
> to
> >>>> attend a
> >>>> "local" European Declarative UI meeting later this year.
> >>>>
> >>>> And Jim, Norway is a wonderful place to ski, although it is still
> a
> >> bit
> >>>> early
> >>>> with short days. What kind of skiiing do you do, downhill or
> >> snowboard?
> >>>> Hallvard
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Jim
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Tom Schindl [mailto:tom.schindl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>>> Sent: maandag 9 februari 2009 15:05
> >>>>>> To: Robert Wloch
> >>>>>> Cc: jim van dam; tom herrmann; helmar behrends
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [e4-dev] Introduction::UFace, PMF & Flowr
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It looks like we are all located in Western Europe
> (Netherlands,
> >>>>>> Germany, Austria) so we should maybe be able to arrange a
> meeting
> >>>>>> somewhere in the middle (presumably after EclipseCon).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In fact even when looking at the greater circle of Declarative
> UI
> >>>>>> people
> >>>>>> it looks Europe rules in this area:
> >>>>>> - Hallvard Trætteberg - Norway
> >>>>>> - Olivier Moïses - France
> >>>>>> - Angelo Zerr - France
> >>>>>> - Yves Yang - France
> >>>>>> - Jim Van Dam - Netherlands
> >>>>>> - Tom Herrmann - Germany (assumed)
> >>>>>> - Helmar Behrends - Germany (assumed)
> >>>>>> - Robert Wloch - Germany
> >>>>>> - Tom Schindl - Austria
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At least Jim, Olivier, Yves and me are at EclipseCon and can
> meet
> >>>>>>
> >>>> there
> >>>>
> >>>>>> (I'll arrive Friday evening and stay at Hilton).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We could meet somewhere in the middle to kick off the
> >> collabortation
> >>>> -
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>> think we need to meet in person to get the collaboration
> started.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have no problem traveling to Germany/Netherlands/... but you
> >> could
> >>>>>> also come to Austria if you'd like to.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Robert Wloch schrieb:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Tom, Jim,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm glad you both see the same opportunity on collaboration
> here!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Unfortunately I won't be at the EclipseCon and it won't be
> >> possible
> >>>> for
> >>>>
> >>>>>> me to attend either, as I'll be at the MDD&PL 2009 in the very
> >> same
> >>>>>> week. So what's your suggestion for a get together? I'll also
> CC
> >> Tom
> >>>>>> Herrmann and Helmar Behrends from the Flowr team, as they'd be
> >>>>>> interested in a common talk, too.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>> Rob
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- "Jim van Dam" <jim.van.dam@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hello Rob,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Rob> > I've taken a look at UFace and PMF during the past
> days
> >> and
> >>>>>>>> both
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> interest me a lot. To me it appears as if both projects are
> a
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> natural
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> symbiosis.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Tom> Are you going to be on EclipseCon? If yes we should all
> >> meet
> >>>>>> like
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ESE and talk how we could collaborate.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Completely agree with you and Tom and see a lot of
> opportunity
> >> for
> >>>>>>>> collaboration.
> >>>>>>>> PMF is aiming at UI modeling/transformation from PIM to a
> >> diverse
> >>>>>> set
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> of target platforms.
> >>>>>>>> My personal UI target platform experience using PMF is with
> >> Swing,
> >>>>>>>> ASP.Net/SharePoint and JSF so together we can cover a broad
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>> spectrum.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> Looking forward to meeting you all at EclipseCon. I arrive
> on
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Saturday
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> and I believe there are different BOFS proposed for UI
> related
> >>>>>>>> subjects so lots of opportunity to see how we can arrange
> joint
> >>>>>>>> efforts.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jim
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> From: e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:e4-dev-
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> On
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Tom Schindl
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: zondag 8 februari 2009 22:09
> >>>>>>>>> To: E4 Project developer mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [e4-dev] Introduction
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Rob,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As the project lead of UFaceKit I'm always open for
> discussion
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> collobaration.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I agree about that it looks like we 3 would we a perfect
> match.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> As
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> maybe already found out UFaceKit has quite a simple concept
> by
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> defining
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> a set of interfaces and a factory to create the concrete
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> implementation.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Currently we have first class support for:
> >>>>>>>>> - SWT & JFace
> >>>>>>>>> - QT
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Second class support for:
> >>>>>>>>> - Swing (in fact only need to implement the styleing stuff)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Incubation work for:
> >>>>>>>>> - Native GWT
> >>>>>>>>> - SmartGWT
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> First ideas on:
> >>>>>>>>> - Draw2d
> >>>>>>>>> - Android
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'd welcome any feedback and input (I desperately search
> for
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> skilled
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Swing-Devs) as you can imagine is hard to find for someone
> like
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> me.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Are you going to be on EclipseCon? If yes we should all
> meet
> >> like
> >>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ESE
> >>>>>>>>> and talk how we could collaborate. Maybe I also need to
> mention
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> there's no fulltime coder working on UFaceKit (we are all
> doing
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> stuff in our spare time!).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Robert Wloch schrieb:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Angelo, Ed, and all others thanks for your responses.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I've taken a look at UFace and PMF during the past days
> and
> >> both
> >>>>>>>>> interest me a lot. To me it appears as if both projects are
> a
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> natural
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> symbiosis.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In the team I was working in from 2006 until 2008 we were
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> developing
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> something very similar to the PMF combined with UFace,
> except
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> that
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> "our
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> UFace" consisted of a Swing and an AJAX renderer only.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> Additionally
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> layout of our GUI was declared via XML files, catchword
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "declarative
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> UI". Currently, my old team is recoding our first shot and
> made
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> it
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> open
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> source: http://www.flowr.org. I believe these three parties
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> (UFace,
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> PMF,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Flowr) should talk with each other soon. ;-)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Anyways, I'd be glad to contribute my share of labor and
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> knowledge
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> PMF and UFace. Any help on how to get on board is greatly
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> appreciated!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>> Rob
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> e4-dev mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> B e s t S o l u t i o n . a t EDV
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> Systemhaus
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> GmbH
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>> tom schindl leiter
> >>>>>>>>> softwareentwicklung/CSO
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>> eduard-bodem-gasse 8/3 A-6020 innsbruck phone
> ++43
> >> 512
> >>>>>>>>> 935834
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> e4-dev mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> e4-dev mailing list
> >>>>>>>> e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> B e s t S o l u t i o n . a t EDV
> >> Systemhaus
> >>>>>> GmbH
> >>>>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >>>> ---
> >>>>
> >>>>>> -
> >>>>>> tom schindl leiter
> >>>>>> softwareentwicklung/CSO
> >>>>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >>>> ---
> >>>>
> >>>>>> -
> >>>>>> eduard-bodem-gasse 8/3 A-6020 innsbruck phone ++43
> 512
> >>>>>> 935834
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> e4-dev mailing list
> >>>>> e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> e4-dev mailing list
> >>>> e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> e4-dev mailing list
> >>> e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> e4-dev mailing list
> >> e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > e4-dev mailing list
> > e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
>
>
> --
> B e s t S o l u t i o n . a t EDV Systemhaus
> GmbH
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> tom schindl leiter
> softwareentwicklung/CSO
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> eduard-bodem-gasse 8/3 A-6020 innsbruck phone ++43 512
> 935834
> _______________________________________________
> e4-dev mailing list
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