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[dtp-pmc] Fw: Summary of EJB 3.0 Persistence Meetings, EclipseWorld, 2005-08-29, 30
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Here's a useful summary of the ORM discussions that took place at
EclipseWorld last week. Note that further discussions on this topic will be
held on the wst-jst-dev list, as Arthur mentions below, so those interested
should subscribe to that list as well.
Regards,
John Graham
DTP PMC
----- Forwarded by John Graham/SYBASE on 09/07/2005 01:13 PM -----
Arthur Ryman
<ryman@xxxxxxxxxx
> To
"Shaun Smith"
09/07/2005 12:16 <shaun.smith@xxxxxxxxxx>
PM cc
"david.tinker@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<david.tinker@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Der
Ping Chou" <dpchou@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"Greg Campbell (E-mail)"
<gcamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"john.graham@xxxxxxxxxx"
<john.graham@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"karen.moore@xxxxxxxxxx"
<karen.moore@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"karlr@xxxxxxxxxx"
<karlr@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"koen.aers@xxxxxxxxx"
<koen.aers@xxxxxxxxx>, "Marc
Prud'hommeaux (E-mail)"
<marc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"marshall.culpepper@xxxxxxxxx"
<marshall.culpepper@xxxxxxxxx>,
"Max Rydahl Andersen (E-mail)"
<max.andersen@xxxxxxxxx>,
"michael.keith@xxxxxxxxxx"
<michael.keith@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"neil.hauge@xxxxxxxxxx"
<neil.hauge@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"pauljm@xxxxxxx" <pauljm@xxxxxxx>,
"paul.fullbright@xxxxxxxxxx"
<paul.fullbright@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"pcl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<pcl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Robert
Greene" <rgreene@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
"tbashor@xxxxxxx"
<tbashor@xxxxxxx>,
"twagner@xxxxxxx" <twagner@xxxxxxx>
Subject
RE: Summary of EJB 3.0 Persistence
Meetings, EclipseWorld,
2005-08-29,30
Shaun,
You're welcome. I'm glad that the teams are moving forward on the EMF
models.
Just one technical point. Although I copied the wtp-jst-dev list, it
bounced because there are too many addressees on the note.
I suggest we do use a mailing list in the interest of openess. Could
everyone who is interested in this topic please subscribe to wst-jst-dev?
We can use this list for inter-project coordination.
Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division
"Shaun
Smith"
<shaun.smit
h@xxxxxxxxx To
m> "Robert Greene" <rgreene@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA,
"wtp-jst-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx"
09/07/2005 <wtp-jst-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
11:25 AM cc
"Der Ping Chou" <dpchou@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"marshall.culpepper@xxxxxxxxx"
<marshall.culpepper@xxxxxxxxx>,
"koen.aers@xxxxxxxxx"
<koen.aers@xxxxxxxxx>,
"neil.hauge@xxxxxxxxxx"
<neil.hauge@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"karen.moore@xxxxxxxxxx"
<karen.moore@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"pcl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<pcl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "twagner@xxxxxxx"
<twagner@xxxxxxx>, "tbashor@xxxxxxx"
<tbashor@xxxxxxx>, "pauljm@xxxxxxx"
<pauljm@xxxxxxx>,
"david.tinker@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<david.tinker@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
"paul.fullbright@xxxxxxxxxx"
<paul.fullbright@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"michael.keith@xxxxxxxxxx"
<michael.keith@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"john.graham@xxxxxxxxxx"
<john.graham@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"karlr@xxxxxxxxxx" <karlr@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"Greg Campbell (E-mail)"
<gcamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Marc
Prud'hommeaux (E-mail)"
<marc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Max Rydahl
Andersen (E-mail)"
<max.andersen@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject
RE: Summary of EJB 3.0 Persistence
Meetings, EclipseWorld, 2005-08-29,30
Yes, Arthur did a good job of documenting the meetings and as agreed, we've
started to take a look a the jsr220 project EMF model to compare with ours
as a starting point. Things are progressing.
Thanks to Arthur for arranging the "EJB 3.0 Summit" at EclipseWorld!
Shaun
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Greene [mailto:rgreene@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 8:59 AM
To: Arthur Ryman; wtp-jst-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Der Ping Chou; marshall.culpepper@xxxxxxxxx; koen.aers@xxxxxxxxx;
shaun.smith@xxxxxxxxxx; neil.hauge@xxxxxxxxxx; karen.moore@xxxxxxxxxx;
pcl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; twagner@xxxxxxx; tbashor@xxxxxxx; pauljm@xxxxxxx;
david.tinker@xxxxxxxxxxx; paul.fullbright@xxxxxxxxxx;
michael.keith@xxxxxxxxxx; john.graham@xxxxxxxxxx; karlr@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Summary of EJB 3.0 Persistence Meetings, EclipseWorld,
2005-08-29,30
Hi Arthur,
I think this is a fine summary. I have talked about our discussions with
my team. David Tinker and Dirk le Roux are ready for the code review on
the 14th to talk about the model and anything else that comes up with the
JSR220 CVS code examination by Shaun and his team.
Cheers everyone!
-Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Ryman [mailto:ryman@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tue 9/6/2005 11:19 AM
To: wtp-jst-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Der Ping Chou; marshall.culpepper@xxxxxxxxx;
koen.aers@xxxxxxxxx; shaun.smith@xxxxxxxxxx; neil.hauge@xxxxxxxxxx;
karen.moore@xxxxxxxxxx; pcl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Robert Greene;
twagner@xxxxxxx; tbashor@xxxxxxx; pauljm@xxxxxxx; david.tinker@xxxxxxxxxxx;
paul.fullbright@xxxxxxxxxx; michael.keith@xxxxxxxxxx;
john.graham@xxxxxxxxxx; karlr@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Summary of EJB 3.0 Persistence Meetings,
EclipseWorld, 2005-08-29,30
This note summarizes the very positive meetings that were
held last week at EclipseWorld in New York. The purpose of these meetings
was to explore areas of cooperation between the two JSR 220 Technology
projects led by Oracle and Versant.
Monday, 2005-08-29, 6:30 PM
The following people attended:
Versant: Robert Greene
Oracle: Shaun Smith, Neil Hauge, Karen Moore
JBoss: Marshall Culpepper, Koen Aers
SolarMetric: Patrick Linskey
BEA: Tim Wagner, Ted Bashor, Paul Meijer
IBM: Arthur Ryman, Der-Ping Chou
We discussed the goals and approaches of the two projects
and agreed that the projects had much in common. We also discussed the
history and cleared up several points of confusion. For example, although
an ORM runtime was part of the original Versant proposal, it is not
included now. Also, the Versant code base is not a port of their
pre-existing Swing-based product. It has been rewritten from scratch for
Eclipse.
There was unanimous agreement that the projects would
benefit from cooperation. There is a lot of work to do and a limited amount
of resource. In view of the close similarity bewteen the project, it makes
a lot of sense to cooperate and share the development effort. This
cooperation will also make it easier to adopt the code bases when they move
out of the Technology projects and into WTP and DTP.
The split of code between WTP and DTP requires further
analysis. The EJB 3.0-specific parts of the code belong in WTP, but any
more general framworks, e.g. that would support JDO or other types of
mapping, belong in DTP.
The Versant project is currently provisioned at Eclipse and
they have released an initial milestone build. The Oracle project is
currently waiting for legal signoffs before it can be provisioned. However,
Oracle does have a running version.
Both projects currently have EMF-based mapping models and
it was agreed that this is the best initial candidate for code sharing.
Since the Versant project has been provisioned, all parties
are free to review the Versant EMF model and are encouraged to do so asap.
However, review of the Oracle EMF model should wait until it has been
checked into the Eclipse CVS repository. The contact points for the EMF
models were identifed as Paul Fullbright for Oracle and David Tinker for
Versant. We agreed to hold a telecon to discuss the models on September 14.
The telecon will be hosted by Oracle. It was also agreed that a
face-to-face meeting to review the code bases would be useful. This meeting
will be scheduled after Oracle checks in its code.
Since both projects have running code, it was decided that
the best way to proceed was to hold a "Show and Tell" session on Tuesday.
The meeting adjourned to Carmine's for dinner where much
beer and pasta was consumed.
Tuesday, 2005-8-30, 5:15 PM
Attendees from Monday were joined by:
Oracle; Mike Keith
Sybase: John Graham, Karl Reti
Robert Greene demoed the Versant code first. Robert showed
Java annotation code assist, outline views, property sheets, and live ER
diagrams. There is a Flash demo on the project Web site.[1]
Shaun Smith demoed next and showed very similar capability,
the main visible difference being lack of ER diagrams. Shaun even arranged
his views to match those of Versant.
Both projects showed a lot of capability and progress. This
similarity reinforced the conclusion that it was pointless to continue to
duplicate effort. Neither project had an editor for the XML mapping format,
or had advanced semantic validation, quick fixes, etc. Taking the current
code bases to the level of function expected by JDT users will require a
lot of work so it is highly desirable to pool development resources.
These demos went a long way towards raising everyone's
comfort level. IMHO, the combined resources of these projects are a "Dream
Team". There was an incredible amount of EJB 3.0 ORM expertise, experience,
and development talent in the room. Eclipse users are in for a real treat
if these projects can come together.
The meeting adjourned to Rosa Mexicano for dinner where
more beer and tequila flowed.
[1] http://eclipse.org/jsr220orm/
Arthur Ryman
